#VoteBike - 2012 London Mayoral elections

The Jewish population may be wealthier than average, the Labour voting population is poorer than average.

It's a rude and insensitive thing to say but maybe it's not totally unfounded?

I read Ken's wikipedia article which has a lot of the transcripts from the supposedly anti-semitic incidents. In all of it Ken appears argumentative and rude but thats true across the board and these incidents themselves aren't specifically anti-semitic. Read it and make up your own mind.

EDIT: Sorry if this caused any offence, i was trying to talk about averages in populations rather than assuming anything about any individual, but with no supporting data, this is prejudice and NOT OK. No offence was intended and I've leaned from my mistake. Please see apology and discussion in the following posts.

Sorry. That is nonsense.

First, one cannot and should not make assumptions about a person's wealth based upon their race or religion. Such assumptions are the basis for most antisemitism.

Secondly, how can anyone be too rich to vote Labour? Until this election, I have always voted Labour. I earn more than the average wage. Livingstone earns at least £90,000 a year. Is he too rich? Many affluent people vote Labour. Politics is about ideals not one's socio economic class, race or religion.

Livingstone is devisive. He cares only about a segment of the community. The Mayor should be for all Londoners.

The Jewish population is wealthier than average

It's a rude and insensitive thing to say but it's not totally unfounded.

Im afraid that as a Jew who knows a few other jews I
a) would like to see stats backing that statement up
b) take offence at that comment and see it as a load of shit and fairly racist

Imagine if Cameron said that black people were too poor to vote Tory. There would be a justifiable outrage.

+1 to what clive says, if only such good sense was carried into the football thread. alas

Can't rep you again ;o)

Of course, Arsenal fans are too stupid to vote Green. Goes without saying ;o)

racist!

So when he says "Jews are too rich to vote Labour" he is just joshing?

No, he is a nasty devisive prat.

Since you have put it in quotes you must be able to tell us where and when he *said *this? I mean, actually said it rather than it being something else he said that has been paraphrased.

Clive, you're so evergreen, seriously, you may think that I'm being sarcastic, but it doesn't look like to me.

@wiganwill, its not the exact quote but its pretty certain it happened unless alot of people are lying

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/65425/ken-livingstone-jews-wont-vote-labour-because-they-are-rich

and his 'contrition' (otherwise know as electioneering bullshit)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/mar/29/ken-livingstone-contrition-jewish-chronicle

There are no such things as 'exact quotes'. It's either a quote or it is not; presenting it as one is dishonest and tendentious.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/65425/ken-livingstone-jews-wont-vote-labour-because-they-are-rich

That story, from the reliably fair and unbiased source The Jewish Chronicle, does not quote Ken Livingstone at all, it just quotes a letter written complaining about him. You can't write off the Guardian article as 'electioneering' and then put that forward as balanced journalism!

Jews are rich?
#wonderwhyiliveinaseedybedsitinfinsburypark

I'm an atheist
#wonderswhymumtoldmeiwasajew

That story, from the reliably fair and unbiased source The Jewish Chronicle, does not quote Ken Livingstone at all, it just quotes a letter written complaining about him. You can't write off the Guardian article as 'electioneering' and then put that forward as balanced journalism!

ffs are you serious? Kens climbdown and apology is the electioneering, not the guardian article. The JC was the paper that broke the story but as Livingstone ended up apologising for it then surely he said it, as the majority of other news agencies ran the story or is it all just a big conspiracy?

Boris Johnson apologised for his 'piccaninnies' comments, which were also reported out of the context that also mitigated the circumstances somewhat. Is he a racist?

I think Ken's a guy who doesn't always think before he opens his mouth. But if you're going to level that charge against him, then you certainly can't countenance voting for Boris.

Calling him antisemitic is just ridiculous though, and what's even more ridiculous is that in this thread that charge is being bandied round almost as a truism.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/25/ken-livingstone-elect-chat-show-host

I wish it was. They might do less harm.

And here is an actual quote from Ken's article in the Jewish Chronicle

We can view my record through press cuttings or we can judge it through what I did as mayor: developing a housing policy to address the issues of the Charedi community; publication of the Jewish London Guide; the Chanucah menorah lighting on Trafalgar Square; marking Holocaust Memorial Day; delivering Simcha in the Square, since abolished by Boris Johnson; working to make the North London Eruv possible; changing the day of London's "Rise" anti-racist festival so that Jewish people could play their part; opposing the academic boycott of Israel; regular Jewish community events and meetings.
On Israel I have always refused to visit the surrounding dictatorships because they are just that, dictatorships – but I have visited Israel because it is democratic. Support for a peaceful outcome with two states enjoys majority support among both peoples. I said when I was mayor that I believed in a two-state solution and that remains my position. In my view it requires strong economic ties to make both states economically successful and committed to lasting peace.

'Simcha in the square'

Definitely gets my vote
(after Jenny)

Boris Johnson apologised for his 'piccaninnies' comments, which were also reported out of the context that also mitigated the circumstances somewhat. Is he a racist?

If you were to examine the context of Johnson's picaninnies comment you would see that in fact he was using the word as part of attributing a certain patronising attitude towards foreign countries to Tony Blair. It was clear that it wasn't his attitude but one he supposed Blair to have.

If you look at Livingstone's words in their proper context it is clear that he dismisses Jews as rich Tories, and it is indicative of his own prejudices.

So when he says "Jews are too rich to vote Labour" he is just joshing?

No, he is a nasty devisive prat.

I've witnessed your lack of credibility in the football thread :)

maybe ken is or isnt anti semitic, he certainly has history of a fair amount of so called 'gaffes' that have been taken as anti semitic by quite a few jews, not least making out that zionists and jews are one and the same in various discussions and speeches that ive heard.

that list is a long line of things that happened while he was mayor, and events that any mayor with an interest in re-election would have attended, not because he was the instigator, for instance the Eruv had very little to do with him at all and was incidentally opposed, at times rabidly, by large sections of the jewish community.

"I didn't say that. Someone posed the question to me, 'Why don't more Jewish people vote for you?' I started to say, 'No group votes as a whole. The main determining factor in how everybody votes – the overwhelming majority – is income levels.'

A clever, politicians answer. It does however, indicate a certain assumption, though of course he doesnt specifically voice it there.

The way he embraced and backed Sheikh Al-Qaradawi was pretty awful in my view especially as he was Mayor of London at the time and was meant to represent all Londoners. Since he has said that he doesnt agree with him about Israel but as al Qaradawi is hugely known for his fairly anti-semitic and controversial views on Israel, why did he make such a show of supporting him?

^Fair enough, that's an argument. Not some pretend 'quote'.