Bottom bracket help!

an old post, a timeless problem.
after uncharacteristically putting my tools down last night as the red mist started to roll in, I slept on the problem. this morning, Tea. And Forums. now i have clawed back a glimmer of hope - thankyou, shows how much of this mechanic business is psycological. I am now equipped with visualisations of hammering the cup into polite submission, or hacking through it like a knife through butter! ;)

Still, iv only just finished my cuppa, and have yet to lay eyes on the offending beast. diazapan should be a staple stock item in my workshop i think.

I made one of these. big spanner + 5 foot of scafold pipe will do it [dont forget to soak BB in lube] took out cups from a 1964 rusty old frame after much prior weeping.
might kill plastic though.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

^^^^^^ this idea might just save my day!
BB cup bearing surface is mint, but its jammed in there like nothing else, though so far I haven't been able to get much torque on it as the proper tool for the job is elusive and mega bucks (collectors item probably!), sheldon might save my day yet, will see how it goes.

I used a miniature blow torch, hammer and pliers to remove a SKF plastic cupped bb.
Heat/melt non drive side, hit drive side spindle with hammer, bearing and spindle pops out, have access to melt and remove plastic shite. Be patient though, took a while.

Well, the bb pesky cup is out! Cost 40p in gonzo sized machine bolt and big washers, but not big enough, managed to kill the (good bearing surface 600 shimano) cup. Damn!
Soa warning, use thee largest washer possible against the cup surface unless its a really solid steel jobby.
I might still be able to use it, bearing race is still good, but weather will get in easily.

[IMG=800x640]http://www.lfgss.com/attachments/42866d1313080691-2011-08-11-17.14.08.jpg?stc=1[/IMG]

350Nm + of torque did this^^^^ to a shimano 600 BB cup.

1 Attachment

Take it to a metal workshop and have them weld a big bar on to the cup. I did it last week and it was all done in under 10 mins.

this worked for me too, except it was too long to pass the chainstay, and we had to cut it down to carry on turning it. it was fun though!

Hey ;-p First post, woo.

So I have an unloved steel framed Rossin with an old Shimano Tiagra groupset on it. Some surface rust, but Im hoping the frame itself is ok - was considering taking it to armourtex to get bead blasted and powder coated.

Guess what?

Bottom bracket is *****ing not playing. Right now its covered in GT85, and we'll see what happens. When you guys talk about a bath, what do you mean? I sprayed some into the frame itself through the little holes that hold the plastic spacer for the gear cables off the shell, and left some sitting around the crank shaft but its not a genuine bath. Figure of speech?

Im worried about putting enough torque onto the frame to hurt it - I dont have a workbench, so this is all just using the Park Tool shimano BB plug, a halfords socket set & ratcheting handle, and what leverage I can get swearing and cussing.

It's an Italian frame, so I want to turn counterclockwise both sides, as I understand it. The one cup with writing on it says 36x24t. I so want to smash it with a hammer. Must resist. Stupid Italians. (with apols to any actual italians here!)

Right now Im applying almost all my force to the left (non chainset) side - thats right, right? Any harm in giving the other side a try? I assume not, despite the advice on the web to always start left side.

Guess I'll try the LBS if no further joy tonight, having left it making a puddle on my tarp all day.

Oh well. It'll be a very pretty bike if I can get the bracket out ;-p

put the frame on its fork & wheels (and tyres or a carpet surface to avoid damaging rims).

Then if the BB tool you have isn't up to it, use the sheldon bodge tool (pictured in my post just above) and then stick a breaker bar on each end, you might need a mate to help with the other side (same force needed both sides).
I had a massive car (2ft+) torque wrench of good quality and got up to 350Nm (the highest the bar measures to) and it needed a bit more torque again than that to remove. Frame was a lightweight 531c steel job and its no worse for it. Though I would only apply the force in a smooth gentle pattern, don't yank at it.
Also get some plusgas liquid, best release oil I know of, if it doesn't help, nothing will. Best results 24-48hour soaking in the stuff.

VICTORY.

My arms hurt though.

Braced the frame against both knees, put in a socket, socket driver, socket driver extension then the damn bike seatpost to finally get enough leverage, with a tonne of GT85, and got it out. Frame is fine. Bracket is beyond repair though ;-p

I couldnt use the sheldon tool as it was the first cap I was getting off I had trouble with - once that was off putting the penetrating oil inside to loosen the other, and that side came off far, far more easily.

Time to take it off to armourtex! Woop!

Except. Urm. Embarassing question but... Top of the forks, the crown race, I think its called - bit the bottom set of bearings sit on. How exactly does one remove it? Its not split like the upper compression ring, but it doesn't appear to have much give, and its very snug with the top of the forks.

Maybe I'll post a pic of the bit - Looks like a wide collar, with a groove in it, and a smaller collar just poking up above it, that has a washer type affair in the groove.

This is the stanley knife job?

Many thanks all. First bike strip down and rebuild for me, so apols' if Im asking the stupid questions ;-p

Handy tip:
For bottom brackets with plastic adjustable cup, loosen the fixed cup (driveside) first, just by a small amount. This way, the adjustable cup is only held by the threads in the b/b shell, not by the threads and the taper. This can make all the difference.

@ Socktoy
Crownrace can be removed without the proper tool by tapping off from underneath with a hammer and screwdriver.

@ Socktoy
Crownrace can be removed without the proper tool by tapping off from underneath with a hammer and screwdriver.

Yep. Sometime tapping a Stanley blade between the crown race and the crown can help first. Don't mangle it if you want to re-use it, and certainly don't knock lumps out of the steerer tube!

....Don't mangle it if you want to re-use it, and certainly don't knock lumps out of the steerer tube!

Truedat. When yer gettin' annoyed at a job not going right, stop what you're doin', take a step back and go and put the kettle on/have a smoke/do somethin' else. Come back to it later with a clear head.

#easiersaidthandonebutyouknowitstherightthingtodo

Use a rubbish old fault screw driver for prying things off. Again use release oil before hand. Go around it tapping a small amount at 90degree intervals.

I'll give it a go tonight. Once its clear of all its parts I'll take the frame to armourtex, provided they'll let me put decals on between powder coating and laquering.

Frame is a funny one - lugged bottom bracket (very pretty) but looks like welded joins at the seatpost and headset. Late 90's, early 2000's frame, Rossin branded. Any idea where I might be able to get more details? Or is it just an 'email Rossin and ask' job?

I'm trying to learn what resources are available to self service ;-p

• also might want to wrap the screwdriver in electrical tape to prevent damaging the paint/chrome on the forks.
  

Post your frame on the "can you identify these parts" thread in bikes&bits forum. What size is the seatpost? Usually a giveaway.

Armourtex may not allow decals but you can always ask. I think they like the surface to be excruciatingly clean before lacquering. There's always Mario Vaz.

Pop around to my useless LBS (mostly bso mtb's, if you knew the area, you'd understand) with my raleigh to ask about getting a bb out - I didn't have the right tools. One of those adjustable jobby with pin wrench holes, lockring and flats on the fixed side.
'' Naa mate, we don't have those tools, if we did, it's probably seized, it'll cost £30 ''

Challenge accepted!

Hammer and punch to knock the lockring off, easy, fixed side came out nicely with my headset spanner - Fit perfectly, adjustable was seized, and I had no pin spanner, so I soaked it in a mixture of gt85 and motor oil - Then used sheldon's DIY bolt method for the fixed cup in reverse + Socket set and extension bar and some force. Sweet as.

Challenge complete

Don't mean to bump this unnecessarily, but figured it was better than starting my own thread.
I've also got this problem. Recently picked up a beautiful Geoffrey Butler with a Columbus SLX frame and a campagnolo BB. Took the bike apart as soon as I got it because it was pretty dirty and in some places rusty (it cleaned up a treat) but the BB would not move for love nor money. Bought a dedicated tool to fit the BB, and attached a huge metal pole to the spanner but would not move and has now got to the point where the splines on the BB have deteriorated (from my removal efforts) that the tool now barely locks into them and slips every time I apply force now without fail.
Tried gently heating and cooling the shell of the BB just in case that opened it up a bit, and also removed all dirt etc that I could get it, and gave the casing a few hits with a blunt mallet just in case that unlocked anything at all either but nothing has worked so far!
The BB sounds and runs pretty well, so it's not as urgent as it could be, but given the amount of dirt etc on other bits of the bike (and even in the small slits in the bottom of the BB shell which are exposed) I'm sure it could do with a good look over so if anyone had any tips besides taking it to my LBS it would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance to anyone that replies!

@Jaymsd - might be a dumb question, but are you turning the BB "cups" the right way? Drive side is a left hand thread, non-drive side is normal right hand thread.

DoctorBike

That's what I was going to suggest.

If you have a clamp of some sort it makes it easier if you can clamp the tool to the BB. Means that you can concentrate the force on turning the cup instead of worrying about it slipping

I had this problem on several frames.

Last time this happened to me on my Roberts. Campag BB cup was stuck on drive side. Best way I found was to clamp the two large flats of the cup into a vice mounted to a workshop table, this way you have the hole frame for leverage. When this happened to me with cups that did not have flats, or on the non drive side, I used a file to make 2 flats on the cup (it is still useable after, just less pretty) so I could put it in the vice. This was always successful, but maybe this was only luck...

Hope all goes well for you!

L

@Jaymsd - might be a dumb question, but are you turning the BB "cups" the right way? Drive side is a left hand thread, non-drive side is normal right hand thread.

DoctorBike

Unless it's an Italian BB in which case both sides thread in the conventional manner,

Unless it's an Italian BB in which case both sides thread in the conventional manner,

Ditto for french BBs...

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Yeah, I've made sure I'm unscrewing it the right way but it's so siezed that the splines where the tool connects to the BB are now worn so much that the tool slips with even moderate force being applied, so I'm thinking the traditional tool method is out the window now.
The BB is fine at the moment so luckily its nothing pressing, I just know it doesn't have too much life left in it and this frame is too good to throw out with the BB so worse case the splines are completely screwed and the BB kicks it in, is there anything that I can do to remove the BB whilst still keeping the frame and the threading ok?
Thanks again guys.