Epic WTF

Never, ever, ever, bad mouth Come Dine With Me again. This is a direct threat.

Never, ever, ever, bad mouth Come Dine With Me again. This is a direct threat.

It's shit.

Come at me dude...

Sure, but it sounds just a tiny bit as if you are. I dont see what bearing this anecdote about female on male harassment has in a discussion about the massive problem of men's attitudes to rape.

I think the point is that the attitudes you mention aren't actually those of men, but rather those of twats/cunts/pricks etc. I'm willing to bet that a startling number of women share the same opinions and understanding of rape as men.

It's shit.

Come at me dude...

David Lamb is on his way with a handycam and a blowtorch. You were warned.

Bring it on. I have a plumbers blowtorch, not some pussy chefs one.

GTF caramel. I can melt solder and make copper piping watetight without compression fittings!

Hah!

When I was in my earlyish twenties I got followed around all evening by a late thirties/early forties woman who was part of the group we were in that day who was fairly non-stop, and trying to be a mixture of very forward and very manipulative. I was polite initially, then started trying to give her the cold shoulder, which only resulted in her upping the ante and trying even harder. When I eventually pointed out to her that if the gender shoe were on the other foot it would be seen as harassment, everyone else thought I had handled it ungracefully and had a bit of a go. She then went and pulled some random stranger, and I took the opportunity to get my coat and go home.

csb...

Anyway, I generally think creepy men are more frequent and more dangerous than creepy women, but creepiness is bad regardless of the gender of the creep.

Had a bottle of Brunello tail me for hours once, made me uneasy until I acquiesced.

Anyway, I generally think creepy men are more frequent and more dangerous than creepy women, but creepiness is bad regardless of the gender of the creep.

Some of the 'City Socialising' type groups are full of predatory females. I speak from scary experiance...

^^ fair enough. That's an unusual interpretation (sadly), but it is a good one and the kind of thing that more people ought to take to heart. I loathe the idea that there are people who will quite comfortably believe that they didn't actually rape somebody else because they weren't holding them by the throat or threatening them while they did it. Those type of cunts should get no quarter from which to weasel out of it, basically.

How can you do 'it' with someone who does not consent without some form of forceful restraint? or at least aggressive intimidation?

^You're not that naive are you?

How can you do 'it' with someone who does not consent without some form of forceful restraint? or at least aggressive intimidation?

Loads of ways. I'd rather not sit and list them though.

Horribly common in long term relationships/marriages gone wrong. The slow grind of physcological bulling leading to what is essientially unconsential, but not actually forced, sex.

Loads of ways. I'd rather not sit and list them though.

Yeah, pretty much this. Jeebus. There's plenty of other places on the internet for that kind of prurient entertainment.

FWIW in my original post I was being pretty careful not to make this a "men vs women" issue as gender really doesn't matter. Anyone can perpetrate rape regardless of their gender, and anyone can be raped, regardless of their gender or age. Bear in mind that in this Watkins case you've got a woman encouraging it on her own infant which frankly is as bad as the act itself (if not worse, in many ways). Again, the idea that rape is something that men do to women narrows the range of what "counts" as rape and leads to it being under-reported as people think, "well, what happened to me doesn't fit this particular set of parameters, so I guess it couldn't have been rape".

When I eventually pointed out to her that if the gender shoe were on the other foot it would be seen as harassment, everyone else thought I had handled it ungracefully and had a bit of a go. She then went and pulled some random stranger, and I took the opportunity to get my coat and go home.

Ugh. This kind of story is depressingly common. Seems to come from an expectation that you, as a bloke, need to behave in a certain way and if you reject that set of behaviours then you're obviously the one with the problem. Maybe one day this will change - I think we're (as a society) getting a little better with this kind of thing, one small group at a time, but it's a glacially-slow process.

Sure, but it sounds just a tiny bit as if you are. I dont see what bearing this anecdote about female on male harassment has in a discussion about the massive problem of men's attitudes to rape.

How comes?

It's not just an anecdote. I think we have a problem in general with consent. Some people just don't get what it means - both male and female.
It's not all about violence.

EEI - I don't think something seen on Come Dine With Me is a good example considering it's a reality tv show where contestants are chosen for their entertainment potential, so it's not really an authentic situation. Obviously male harassment happens, and so does male rape by women, and that's a problem that could be discussed but please use real world evidence not hyperbolic TV.

I'd rather not give an example from real life on here.

Does male rape by woman happen?? Am I being naive? I'm just thinking of the basic physiology here...

Yes, actually. It's accepted that it is a known phenomena. I once listened to an article about it on Woman's Hour.

I was about to say you could have just googled that, but actually I can see why you didn't.

Oh and re: DFP's question, I'm not going to sit here and list them either, but grooming is one obvious example.

Nah, not one to Google at work!

proto-rapists

It's like the 80s again. Have we not moved on from the 'potential rapists'?
I agree with everything you said but (not withstanding the possibility that I have inferred its meaning incorrectly) language like this has never helped. The Andrea Dworkin approach to feminism ('rape is something all men do to all women') was counter-productive then and it still is.

The vast majority of men in civilised society would never dream of raping someone; even the ones that act all laddish and talk in misogynistic language. Men who have not raped anyone are not 'proto rapists', they are just men. The only people who deserve to be referred to as rapists are rapists. 'proto-rapists' is as bad as calling muslims 'proto-terrorists' or scousers 'proto-burglars'. As much as it generalises it also trivialises the real actions of those to whom you have applied the label. If you want to call them out for behaving in a vile and creepy manner, then use a term which fits their actual actions, not their potential ones.

^^ I'm working from home today and currently not on the VPN, so here you go (Wikipedia should be ok):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender#Rape_of_males_by_females

I see. Thanks Fox.

Haha scousers

Does male rape by woman happen?? Am I being naive? I'm just thinking of the basic physiology here...

If you want physiology, if you stick something up a mans bottom in about 60% of cases he will get an erection whether he wants to or not, attach an Arab strap and away you go...

But bothers point is about consent, there are plenty of reason's why someone can't/won't/is unable to give consent whilst at the same time not struggling. The most obvious is a minor, who may actively want sex, but under the law can't give adult consent, so sex with them is a form of rape. There's obviously also doctors, it's fairly simple for a doctor to get a patient to do inappropriate things with out consent for the acts to be sexual... The old joke about the prostate exam while the doctor puts both his hands on your shoulder for example...
I had a girlfriend who used to initiate sex while I was sleeping, that wasn't consensual... (Not complaining, just giving examples)

Does male rape by woman happen?? Am I being naive? I'm just thinking of the basic physiology here...

It's a logical fallacy, dude. Would you say that one have to be white to be racist?

I only brought it up (the stories of men being sexually harassed by women) to show how easy is to dismiss rape or sexual abuse. If there's no consent, then it's a violation.

Also, have you ever were given drugs by someone who simply wanted to use you?

Ok probably I little deep for me, but what has being given drugs got to do with being used?

That wiki link Fox posted was good. It explained that male arousal was fairly involuntary and physical. So yeah, rape by a female is possible.