Get Some F**king Lights

Personally I don't give that much of a fuck about lights. London's so brightly lit that it barely makes a dent, and if we're talking accidents, a set of Knogs isn't going to make much difference if a driver isn't looking out for a cyclist. Not only that but the whole idea of negative reinforcement - fining people for not doing what you want - is utterly flawed and has recognised as being so ever since the process of education began to be understood by psychologists. If the government really wanted cyclists to be seen, they'd give out free lights. That's not what this is about.

Don't get me wrong, I still wear lights - they're certainly not going to do any harm - but I think this thread is a bit prissy and smug and it needs a reality check. You are not your Knogs. Your Blackburn will not save you.

good lights make make you much more visible than hi viz, which only really works when you are in the line of the cars lights

road positioning is more important than hi viz clothing

hi viz clothing vs lights - I would take the lights any day

My point wasn't really about hi-vis Vs. Lights.

As a driver in London I firmly belive that a set of these catseyes on your body, and maybe a set on your bike, plus reflective clothing - on a jacket, trouser clip, bag, etc. is far supirior to having a +£70 light on the front.

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...and I find it very hard to belive that anyone who has driven in London and experienced the difference between the various options would disagree.

I admit that it might not be as cool, give the same kit fetish satisfaction or bragging rights ;)

Your are correct that position is also important.

^^ sorry but that's rubbish.

If a cyclist with no lights pulls out in front of you, or if you're tired and pulling out of a junction it makes all the difference.

Obviously you can pull into the middle of the road to avoid parked cars, not check your mirrors and hit a cyclist on your outside. But if he's go a flashing light it usually registers in your mirrors. If he doesn't it mos def will not.

Exactly the same thing applies when cars dont have lights at dusk - which has caused numerous close calls throughout my driving life.

It makes SOME difference, sure; the question is, how much? This thread is acting like lights will keep you safe. They won't. If you're a car driver, and you're tired, and you're not looking, and you just want to get home, and your wipers aren't working well, and your radio is on full blast, and that bloody cyclist shouldn't be undertaking you ANYWAY, then a set of lights is - I'm sorry to really emphasise this but it is the truth - not going to have any significant impact on the chances of an accident. It just isn't. Sure it has SOME impact, but so many other factors - road position, apparent confidence of the rider, eye contact, defensive cycling - will have a much more significant impact on your safety as a cyclist than some poxy battery powered flashing light with a - let's not forget - minimal visible radius.

You could even make the argument that lights - like helmets - give the false illusion of safety, and in fact - like helmets - seem to tacitly encourage accidents. Where was that study done, was it Australia, where helmets made it more likely that a cyclist would be knocked off because it subconsciously made drivers feel that they were more protected?

I wouldn't dream of making that point myself, of course. It's wilfully contrarian. :)

if you're tired

second time on this thread, you shouldn't be driving in an unfit state....driving with impaired vision due to tiredness is a lot more serious than not having lights in near fully lit town.

^^ that is ridiculous.

Lights **do **make you more visible at night. That is a FACT. They won't save you in an accident, but they will make an accident less likely.

There's a difference between what it said and what it show.

I've taken them off the shelf, turn it on side by side with my exposure, and the beam appear to be the same brightness despite stated differently.

Welcome to ed's test lab - pish and fye to your fancy-schmancy laborataries with your measuring equipment - Ed has turned the lights on in the shop, that's real data, right there!!

next week Ed reviews the latest aerodynamic developments in carbon wheels by spinning them round a bit in his hands, squinting a bit and making a gentle tutting sound

oh eddy…

:^]

Had a cyclist riding along a poorly lit road in the country, I was waiting at the junction for a car to go passed, could just see that this car overtook him.

So waited and at one point couldn't see him at all, I beeped my horn as there where no lights on the front of the bike, he went passed and gave me the 'bird' to which I beeped again.

The fool had hi-viz jacket and greenish light on the back of the bike. From the front you couldn't see them at all and they blended into the darkness!

I found that alot of town riders think its ok to have no lights on their bikes!!!

As I said on the other lights thread (merg?) the Moon Gem 3.0 is the best city light I've seen.

You can buy an A4 sheet of 3M reflective stuff.

I did this. Then made 'moons' for my bag by drawing around round things – then cutting them out.

Creative fun and road-safe.

nice. might cover my entire frame in reflective tape when it's really beaten up...

I usually ride with 3 cheap lights (1 on the front and 2 on the back Balki style). As they all use AAAs I'm never without a light due to flat batteries.

Lights should be sold as packs of 3!

nice. might cover my entire frame in reflective tape when it's really beaten up...

Or just get a white powdercoat perhaps?

motrax brian dead refective stickers.

got one of these on the back of my lid

Saw another cyclist with a red light in the middle of his chest yesterday, very strange is this the new fashion so you can look like you're going backwards whilst going forwards?

Or just get a white powdercoat perhaps?
reflective powder coat?? that would be awsome/hideous

It makes SOME difference, sure; the question is, how much? This thread is acting like lights will keep you safe. They won't. If you're a car driver, and you're tired, and you're not looking, and you just want to get home, and your wipers aren't working well, and your radio is on full blast, and that bloody cyclist shouldn't be undertaking you ANYWAY, then a set of lights is - I'm sorry to really emphasise this but it is the truth - not going to have any significant impact on the chances of an accident. It just isn't. Sure it has SOME impact, but so many other factors - road position, apparent confidence of the rider, eye contact, defensive cycling - will have a much more significant impact on your safety as a cyclist than some poxy battery powered flashing light with a - let's not forget - minimal visible radius.

You could even make the argument that lights - like helmets - give the false illusion of safety, and in fact - like helmets - seem to tacitly encourage accidents. Where was that study done, was it Australia, where helmets made it more likely that a cyclist would be knocked off because it subconsciously made drivers feel that they were more protected?

I wouldn't dream of making that point myself, of course. It's wilfully contrarian. :)

Trollface.jpg

3m reflective tape is awesome. i'm betting most of us don't have reflectors on our pedals due to clipless pedals or bmx-style flats with straps etc. they are required by the highway code afaik.
I've stuck 3m tape to the backs of my shoes after noticing how visible old-scholl pedal lights are when i've been driving on darker roads. i think it's their movement - they'll catch your headlights perfectly at some point in their revolution and send you back a really bright blink of light. again the movement helps, it catches your eye.
the tape is black and sticks well to the heel cups of cycling shoes.
not my primary way of making myself visible to motorists at night and not strickly compliant with the highway code i guess, but it does make you more visible.

As a cyclist, sometimes it's hard enough to see other cyclists without lights, nevermind if you're in a car with all the usual distractions. There are some London roads that are particularly poorly-lit, and not just side streets, but even main roads, particularly the bottom of The Mall.

Which makes me wonder, what constitutes a light? Could you get away with cycling along holding a candle? impractical I know

At a push, a sparkler will get you to the corner shop

^^ that is ridiculous.

Lights **do **make you more visible at night. That is a fact. They won't save you in an accident, but they will make an accident less likely.

it makes some difference, sure; the question is, how much? This thread is acting like lights will keep you safe. They won't.

hth

I've always been tempted to attack my bike with some of the clear refecltive 3M spray i.e. it just looks like a gloss varnish, but reflects light. Anyone used it?

reflective powder coat?? that would be awsome/hideous

Joe Krillz in NY used to have a fully reflective frame... before he...errr.. retired it...

http://prollyisnotprobably.com/2008/10/squarebuilt.php

I've always been tempted to attack my bike with some of the clear refecltive 3M spray i.e. it just looks like a gloss varnish, but reflects light. Anyone used it?

Rolling to the Stones 2007

3m reflective tape is awesome. i'm betting most of us don't have reflectors on our pedals due to clipless pedals or bmx-style flats with straps etc. they are required by the highway code afaik.
I've stuck 3m tape to the backs of my shoes after noticing how visible old-scholl pedal lights are when i've been driving on darker roads. i think it's their movement - they'll catch your headlights perfectly at some point in their revolution and send you back a really bright blink of light. again the movement helps, it catches your eye.
the tape is black and sticks well to the heel cups of cycling shoes.
not my primary way of making myself visible to motorists at night and not strickly compliant with the highway code i guess, but it does make you more visible.

I do this - the movement is key. Started doing it after I saw people with lights in their pedals. Whicch tape do you use? I have some 3M orange stuff that is great but is a bit fragile and doesn't stick as well as I'd like.

Onluy downside is it's not cheap but it'll last you a long time.

Get a pair of these;

Respro reflective ankle bands.