Proper leather shoes

But as I'm a size 12 the socks are too tight to be of any use really..

What does size have to do with "tight"? I fit my shoes to the weight of the socks I intend to wear, viz. for winter shoes and stout socks I will typically need a slightly different fit.
Warm socks don't have to be heavy with good shoes as the cork footbed provides good isolation. My favorite medium weight socks these days come from "House of Cheviot". They are one of the last hold outs in Harwick. Quality is good.

P.S.: I'm also size 12 (US 13).

The socks say 12 on the label and are usually the biggest on the rack. These are usually snug and ok on their own. Doubling up makes them a bit tight, obviously not much cop for insulating properties.

I'd just get some decent boots and were wool socks instead, so you can take socks of for when you're inside.

Completely agree. Fur lined shoes are.. well silly. They can never compare to proper layering. Wool socks work well--- if need be one can add a layer of thin silk or even nylons (but never cotton!). One can also layer thin camelhair socks (socks are almost another science).. I've not seen a fur lined shoe that can compete---- the old Sorels (absolutely nothing in common with the current brand which is complete trash) worked by using an extremely heavy felt liner (felt is an amazing insolator).

The boots I use are meindl 3 season boots and I'm still getting cold feet. I've ordered some felt liners from an army supplies store (new), hopefully these will help.

On my +100 miles rides I can be out in the cold upto13 hours depending on the climbing (AAA) routes so I'm slow.

Are these boots Gore Tex lined?
Any "waterproof breathable" liner is death in a boot or shoe - absolutely no breathability.

The socks say 12 on the label and are usually the biggest on the rack. These are usually snug and ok on their own. Doubling up makes them a bit tight, obviously not much cop for insulating properties.

I too am often confused by the size labeling of socks but, in general, size 12 socks are not intended for size 12 feet.
According the table http://www.legsource.com/Hosiery_Consortium_Testing/shoe-size-vs-sock-size.html a size 12 sock is for a US men's 11 shoe which is roughly a UK size 10 (1/2 a size up and down will handle foot width needs).

I'm a NA 10.5 and now will no longer buy anything other than XL in socks, virtually every brand seems to have shrunk their sizing in the last years.
(I buy at least 70% wool, usually merino)

The boots I use are meindl 3 season boots and I'm still getting cold feet. I've ordered some felt liners from an army supplies store (new), hopefully these will help.

On my +100 miles rides I can be out in the cold upto13 hours depending on the climbing (AAA) routes so I'm slow.

Are these boots for bicycling?
Cycling has VERY different demands as the foot is being held quite firm in the pedals. Using cycling shoes, layers of wool socks and over-shoes helps but... I've gotten feet so cold that...
The only solution I currently know is heating. There are a number of new smart heating units on the market that work well and fit into most cycling shoes. With LiPo batteries some models can run of to 12 hours.

Are these boots for bicycling?
Cycling has VERY different demands as the foot is being held quite firm in the pedals. Using cycling shoes, layers of wool socks and over-shoes helps but... I've gotten feet so cold that...
The only solution I currently know is heating. There are a number of new smart heating units on the market that work well and fit into most cycling shoes. With LiPo batteries some models can run of to 12 hours.

No just regular walking boots on big ass flats with spikes, gets deep in snow up here and every now and then walking is needed. Plus it saves me having to carry extra shoes to different sites. Waterproof as well.

Good info about sock sizing, I didn't know that, where can I get big size sock from? Googling is needed I think.

Are these boots Gore Tex lined?
Any "waterproof breathable" liner is death in a boot or shoe - absolutely no breathability.

Yeah goretex, I thought it would be better? They are reasonably waterproof in all but the worst of weather on long (10 hour) rides.

They'll keep all the external water out, and all of your sweat in. Gore tex should never have been integrated into shoe technology, until recently it was barely usable in jackets.

I'm a NA 10.5 and now will no longer buy anything other than XL in socks, virtually every brand seems to have shrunk their sizing in the last years.
(I buy at least 70% wool, usually merino)

With House of Cheviot XL would be too large. With my size 12 (13 US) I get a perfect fit with Large (UK 10.5-12.5). Their XL is intended for UK 13-14.5 (EU 49-50.5). For a US 10.5 I'd expect you to get a good fit with their Medium.
Corgi used to make very good socks--- they used to be a main supplier of tartan hose for the Army---- but I'm unsure of their current range. I mention them as their sizing was different.

thanks, will check out Cheviot

They'll keep all the external water out, and all of your sweat in. Gore tex should never have been integrated into shoe technology, until recently it was barely usable in jackets.

My GoreTex jackets all "leaked". Their main advantage for me was their compactness--- I could carry one folded up.
For wet weather I never found anything that could do better than my decades old Barbour waxed jacket-- Northumbria model.

I've a couple of older Grenfell jackets that do a good job, but in terms of new technology, eVent works quite well.
Sorry, thread derail.

They'll keep all the external water out, and all of your sweat in. Gore tex should never have been integrated into shoe technology, until recently it was barely usable in jackets.

Yeah I've been reading the extreme winter cycling races in Alaska. They all say to use a vapour barrier next to the skin, to stop the sweat leaking heat.

Cheers.

They'll keep all the external water out, and all of your sweat in. Gore tex should never have been integrated into shoe technology, until recently it was barely usable in jackets.

This is so true. It is so difficult to find decent walking boots without Gore tex or some other membrane these days. Meindl Borneos are one that are actually lined with soft leather. Really lush!

@EdwardZ

Is there anything else (away from cedar) that you'd recommend for shoes that isn't overly pricey?

@EdwardZ

Is there anything else (away from cedar) that you'd recommend for shoes that isn't overly pricey?

Dasco shoe trees are easy to find and are, I think, not too pricey.
http://www.dunkelman.com/viewproduct.php?productid=13

Good shoes trees are to hold form and not break anything--- shoe trees can sometimes do more harm than help. They should be smooth. That's why hardwoods are the best. Mahogany is a great wood for trees but its expensive. Lime wood is OK (what Dasco uses) and much cheaper. Plastics are frowned upon but I don't think that they are that bad. In the lower cost segment I often think that the plastic trees are probably better than the wooden ones--- whose splinters can damage shoe linings.

After wearing shoes I personally don't think its a good idea to put the trees in. The more moisture the shoe has the worse, I feel, are the trees for them. If shoes are soaking they should be just filled out with newspaper (or wrapping tissue, which is better but not free) to dry. Once dry shoes can get their trees and put into storage.

This is so true. It is so difficult to find decent walking boots without Gore tex or some other membrane these days. Meindl Borneos are one that are actually lined with soft leather. Really lush!

I don't know a single decent walking boot that uses GoreTex. GoreTex seems to be the stuff used in low grade machine made synthetic footware but I don't think I've ever seen it being used in anything properly made.
Good walking boots should be made on lasts, Goodyear welted and double stitched. GoreTex is reserved for the lower priced "junk" to try to make something cheap and half-way useable. Hanwag and Meindl, for example, still made good shoes even if the mass of what they sell is "junk"--- Meindl's Super-Perfect and Hanwag's Bergell cost over 300 EURO so while not expensive, still way more than most of their customers tend to want to spend, . There are also a number of makers that just do good stuff..

Good shoes trees are to hold form and not break anything--- shoe trees can sometimes do more harm than help. They should be smooth. That's why hardwoods are the best. Mahogany is a great wood for trees but its expensive. Lime wood is OK (what Dasco uses) and much cheaper. Plastics are frowned upon but I don't think that they are that bad. In the lower cost segment I often think that the plastic trees are probably better than the wooden ones--- whose splinters can damage shoe linings.

After wearing shoes I personally don't think its a good idea to put the trees in. The more moisture the shoe has the worse, I feel, are the trees for them. If shoes are soaking they should be just filled out with newspaper (or wrapping tissue, which is better but not free) to dry. Once dry shoes can get their trees and put into storage.

Did you mis type something? Good shoe trees hold form but shouldn't be put in when the shoes are damp? I assume you are aware of what happens when leather absorbs moisture.

I don't know a single decent walking boot that uses GoreTex. GoreTex seems to be the stuff used in low grade machine made synthetic footware but I don't think I've ever seen it being used in anything properly made.
GoreTex is reserved for the lower priced "junk" to try to make something cheap and half-way useable.

Don't know about "walking boots", but most hiking and mountaineering boots sold out here in NA do use Gore Tex, and I'm talking about prices that can reach into the stratosphere. Some leather, some plastic, most machine made, but not inexpensive.

Don't know about "walking boots", but most hiking and mountaineering boots sold out here in NA do use Gore Tex, and I'm talking about prices that can reach into the stratosphere. Some leather, some plastic, most machine made, but not inexpensive.

Most all of the US shoe industry has folded--- if not for the Japanese market Alden would have never survived.
The US market today is dominated by marketing companies. US based outdoot and sports companies market overwhelmingly "technology" and not quality. Most of these shoes are made in the Far East and sold with profit margins "into the stratosphere".
The main mass market Bavarian alpine shoe brands--- Lowa, Hanwag and Meindl--- still maintain, by contrast, some German production and still sell, alongside cheaper machine made shoes (which still cost 100-200 EURO, resp. 150-300 USD), higher grade double stitched boots. There are, of course, much higher grade walking shoes to be had.

My meindl were £200 and have goretex, I'm not sure if that post makes sense. A lot of the £500 mountaineering boots have goretex too.