2010-12-16 - Rider Down, Streatham high Road

@gaz seriously though i think this is good and shows just how bad it can be out there, i have had so many of these 'collisions' in my lifetime.. ride safe people, ice ont road tonight..

The car in front of the white van pulled away seconds before the car appeared through it. Very hard to read that situation and act.

I only do the speed that you're doing there when I can see everything (ie, all the traffic) clearly; otherwise I'm happy to be known as Captain Slow. My accidents have been due to one icey patch, and also previously, one pothole on a dark road.....but never so far with a vehicle. touches wood

I'd like to blame the driver, but I view all drivers as potential murderers, and ride accordingly.

OP - just spent the past half hour working my way through loads of your YouTube clips - much fun. Esp. as we seem to cycle many of the same roads.

Must be careful I don't end up appearing in a video at this rate

** insert smiley **

Gaz, sorry to watch this! I agree, it is very difficult to see the car coming through. I think most of my attention would have been on the one trying to join the traffic. The driver crossing the bus lane should have definitely stopped and checked what was coming through. He couldn't see a thing and should have looked out for bus, motorbikes and cyclists.

Looks like the WVM waves/flashes him through.
Mirrors moron.

Heal up.

Had the same thing in the same place with a big red van on the 10th of this month. He couldent speak english though. I turned away and hit the van shoulder on, think the van was worse off. Speedy healing mate, were they nice people to deal with after?

Heal up. I too loath the high road. I now go through Bedford Hill way.

Is there an argument that the WVM (who flashed the driver through) is partialy liable as the highway code states that you are not allowed to direct traffic (unless you're high patrol or police)?

You have to to expect something coming through as soon as you see the left side road, surely*?

*The driver is a total bell end driving like that

Is there an argument that the WVM (who flashed the driver through) is partialy liable as the highway code states that you are not allowed to direct traffic (unless you're high patrol or police)?

You have to to expect something coming through as soon as you see the left side road, surely*?

*The driver is a total bell end driving like that

Highly unlikely in terms of perceived responsibility and flashing another road user. I had a very similar incident years ago but on a motorbike coming down Brixton Hill just near The Fridge, a bus driver had flashed a car to come out of a side-road as I was passing the bus on the outside. Bang! Insurance wrangle deemed it 50/50 me and car driver, which to be honest seemed fair. I was going too fast to see around the bus (obstacle) for potential hazards and stop in time and the car driver was also going too fast to see around the bus for potential hazards and stop in time.

OP hope you heal up soon and your back doesn't give you too much grief, do get yourself checked out by your GP if you haven't already.

If anyone is interested, there is actually case law on this specific point - i.e. can a driver be liable for flashing another to say it is safe to proceed when this causes an accident as a result.

The law as it stands is that the flashing driver would not be at fault.

Clarke v Winchurch [1968]

The First Defendant wished to drive his car from the kerb, where it was parked facing oncoming traffic. He wished to cross to the other side of the road and to proceed towards X. The Second Defendant, who was driving a bus from X, stopped to allow the First Defendant to cross the side of the road in front of Second Defendant; the Second Defendant looked in his mirror and flashed his lights at the First Defendant. The Claimant, who was riding a moped, overtook the bus, collided with the First Defendant's oncoming car and suffered injuries.

The Judge held, on the facts, (1) that the Second Defendant's flashing of lights meant "Come on so far as I am concerned"; (2) that since the Second Defendant had not seen the motorcyclist's approach, he was not negligent in signalling to the First Defendant; and (3) that the motorcyclist was wholly to blame for the accident, with the First Defendant not being negligent at all.

Hope fate has you back on the bike soon enough Gaz
Keep up the great youtube headcams of your daily commute.

I don't know the actual law on this specific point, but you are overtaking on the inside...?

Personally, driving in London, and the poorer parts of London too, you simply have to expect road users not to see you.

On the roads, I'd rather just be safe rather than right.

Good luck and heal up.

mmm... it tastes better...

hope you feel better.

@Vanuden & Ojeffcott

Not sure if either you guys or anyone else following this thread has heard but drivers' fury has gone up a notch after police prosecution of drivers for flashing headlights at other drivers to warn them of hidden speed traps i.e. a copper hidding in bushes with a speed gun thingy. It's so cynical the police offcers anticipated drivers helping each other out they had coppers on motorbikes to go after 'offenders'.

How the hell can you get done for averting criminal behavior???
Does that mean adults trying to persuade youngsters on the edge to step back from the abyss and do positive things will done for potentially stopping youths from comitting future crimes?

To say it is perfectly fine for a driver to flash ones headlights carelessly (in effect taking control of traffic, which is illegal), cause a possibly fatal accident, is immediately absolved of any responsibilty of the ensuing chaos. And someone flashing headlights and stopping dangerous and criminal behavior will be prosecuted is a total joke.

(Yes it's easy to get into the mob vibe and say fine all speeding drivers but something smells here.)

The gap developed quickly, and the car came through straight away, very hard to spot. If you look at a pot hole or scratch your nose whilst cycling you can easily miss something like this, no matter how good a cyclist you think you are.

My back is feeling bad and thats about it. The front wheel is probably a write off.
My bike has disc brakes and even when i pulled hard on that it wasn't enough to stop in time.
I had exactly the same accident in September on Fulham Palace Road (I was on my 500cc scooter).
Expect anything at a junction when you have no visibility of upcoming traffic. It happens so fast it's often hard to react.
You've been luckier than I was. I may have hit the car at about 5mph after braking and I didn't even fell, but the scaphoid bone on my right wrist snapped under the impact.
Hope that you've recovered, and that your claim will be successful.

It all comes down to speed. It's hard to tell from the video but I would probably have gone at the same speed as Gaz. Overtaking stopped or slow moving traffic on the left is perfectly legal but not pefectly safe. As well as keeping your speed down you need to be extra vigilant. Having been caught out before I am very wary of every gap and wary of what might be behind any van or lorry.

It all comes down to speed because the slower you go the more chance you have of seeing the car, and of the driver seeing you; and more importantly the force of impact increases exponentially with speed. A crash at 20mph has four times the impact force than a crash at 10mph. That's why when they let motorbikes in bus lanes the number of crashes went up and the serious injuries went up even more.

@Ojeffcott & Van Uden

highway code

110
Only flash your headlights to let other know you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

111
Never assume that flashing headlights is a signal inviting you to proceed. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully.

I don't see how you or anyone else can argue this point.

Cars will never stop doing that kind of stuff so two-wheels just need to make sure they get the visibility at crossings. Easy to miss one every once in a while tho. Shame there was a bloody car this time
@HugoNissa - you can't ride properly anyway, you would have crashed eventho there was no car probably ;-)

My issue here is the stance that the law chooses to take. YOU CAN NOT DIRECT TRAFFIC. If driver 2 advances too quickly and causes an accident they should face stiffer punishment.

multi grooves - i totally agree that flashing your lights is deterred by the highway code.

however, the highway code is not the law and it does not bind the court. it is one factor amongst many that the court takes into account in deciding liability for an accident.

a perfect example is the case i meantioned above, where the court found that the driver who flashed their lights was not liable for the accident.