Selection process for EHBPC 2011 23-26.06.2011

Yeah, the truth is hot, and burns you.

Yeah, the truth is hot, and burns you.

The truth hurts rather than burns. Get your idioms right, idiots.

A nation is a group of people who share a cultural/ethnic background (language, traditions, religion, delicious food). A state is a political body which has sovereignty over a territory.

This is correct. Nations have existed for thousands of years. The modern state is usually dated to the 16th-17th centuries. Before that there were kingdoms, but sovereignty over a given territory was incomplete and contested. The treaty of Westpahlia, 1648, was a major step in clearly delimiting state borders.

The LPC is a nation within the state of the UK. When we become powerful enough to challenge the sovereignty of the British government, this is what political sociologists and scientists would call a revolutionary situation.

This is correct. Nations have existed for thousands of years. The modern state is usually dated to the 16th-17th centuries. Before that there were kingdoms, but sovereignty over a given territory was incomplete and contested. The treaty of Westpahlia, 1648, was a major step in clearly delimiting state borders.

The LPC is a nation within the state of the UK. When we become powerful enough to challenge the sovereignty of the British government, this is what political sociologists and scientists would call a revolutionary situation.

Nice explication.

But why does the Isle of Man get a team in the Commonwealth Games?

I fucking love History Time on LFGSS.

Degeneration History Hour

my favourite tag on this thread is 'greg is a poet'.

I spluttered tea when I spotted it.

.

Spotted, sputtered.

This:

yea, they didn't have a very good long term plan.

"Truth is best served cold" - Benjamin Lai Nai Li

Fixed?

I think you're confusing truth with revenge, there.

The selection process should have been regionised from the start. It has been decided, by someone, to be a UK wide selection. There is a lot of people on these isles playing polo, to have 10 slots isn't representative. Scotland is part of the UK, my point is that in all sports competitions: Champions League and the Euros etc, teams come from each individual country that make up the UK. But if the organisers allocate 10 to the UK, we can only go for that.

You're forgetting that there is no governing body for the Euros, so it's up to Barcelona to decide what's best for this years event... if they wanted to they could say: "first come first served by registration" or "invite only" (which could potentially be awful, etc).

Ale has said that we can decide what's the best thing to do with the spots allocated to the UK: We can either hold a qualifier(s), or vote on how to share the slots out. (We could split them nationally if people wanted, but geographic boundaries have been fairly arbitrary/useless in the past?)

I'll be getting the data that the whole of the UK provided once Ale's decided the new spot split (to accommodate the late submissions) and we'll go from there... watch this space.

The slots are representative, they're representative of the size of your scene, the potential number of teams you could send to the Euros and the rough ability of your teams (past results).

Scotland is part of the UK, my point is that in all sports competitions: Champions League and the Euros etc, teams come from each individual country that make up the UK. But if the organisers allocate 10 to the UK, we can only go for that.

Only in certain sports. For cycling, for instance, in Olympics & Worlds, the allocation is taken as GB*.

There are automatic spots for UCL for all established leagues and teams from smaller nations/leagues are required to go through a qualifier against each other and then a play-off with the 2nd/3rd/4th from established leagues before reaching the group stage awaitsnofootiejabfromgabes

Just a suggestion going forward: each scene should get someone appointed and let the appointed reps meet/speak/email and thrash out a proposal with a few alternatives, reps then bring the discussion back for feedback with members of their respective scenes and then get back to the table with what the feedback is.

Mentioning football in this context is acceptable, as it is in reference to the organisation and management of sports. Mentioning football as something you support, should be avoided, 仆街.

I think the argument that scotland needs it's own allocation is a bit far fetched - the pre-registration and previous tournaments have been based on cities.
Therefore, despite being a loaded term, UK and all others countries/states (thanks history club) should be considered as regions as allocated by the organisers.

Hopefully next year a Euro body will be functioning and when jono becomes it's king we can all bribe him for places.

No chance, I've done my bit for the Euro association, someone else will have to take the driver's seat for that one.

UCL EXAMPLE: None of the below are in direct reference to Scene A > Scene B, Team A > Team B etc...

Top 4 of the league are automatically give their spots, they played a season (just like footie) not throw-ins not any one-off tourney, they paid their dues.

6 remaining spot:

• 1 to the 2nd largest scene (Manchester? Brum? Cambridge?)
  
• 1 to be decided by 2 x 5 chukka (home and away) play-off games between 3rd and 4th largest scene
  
• Who makes up the best team, who represents their scene in the play-off is up to the local scene to decide.
  
• **ASSUMING **neversayiassume that the above 6 spots are taken by the best 6 teams in the uk
  
• Tourney for teams 7-10, free for all, everyone allowed wherever in the UK you are from, the losing play-off team included in the tourney/qualifier by default. Just for the interest of not wanting to prolong the qualifier beyond what is needed, limited to established teams, not some newly formed team just wanna get some tourney experience etc.
  
  

Yes, the 7-10 tourney might well end up with London teams making up the places, but yeah, life sucks, life's unfair whatever, if you think the you are good enough to make up the top 10 teams in the UK then go for the qualifiers.

Back to the footie example, you do not get a place in EURO 2012 just because you are a country/state, you play the qualifiers and you get your place. The only reason why the top 4 in the example above are given auto spots is that if they play in a full qualifier is that they might take out a team which is better than the fifth placed league finisher but not as good as the top 4.

football has been played for 100's of years. bike polo is still very new and is changing all the time. What is fair in one place has no relevance in something else. Personally i think the divvying up of construction contracts in iraq is a good way of doing it...right?

So who gets to take the decision on UK spots allocations? Should the constituency be all those teams / players who want to go? A smaller group, say, one person from each city / scene in the UK? A larger group, say, every polo player in the UK?

We should probably agree on this before we start talking about actual selection processes.

leave it up to rumsfield i say.

one person from each city / scene in the UK

Best combination of representation and manageability.

A perspective that ought to be retained/inserted throughout this whole selection process is that of national and regional awareness, inclusion and participation. Irrespective of the 'fairness' of the final representation and their cities/scenes, we should endeavour to include polo from the grass roots, so that even new or developing players/teams can or feel to be part of the 'road to the World Champs'.

By this I mean that it is surely for the good to have a range of UK selection rounds - within scenes, cities and nationally (stimulating awareness and activities that would otherwise not take place - a la FA Cup) - whether you view that simply as more opportunities for competitive polo or because you are serious about 'going all the way'. When devising these selection formats, can people better qualified than I think from the bottom up too?

By remembering to think strategically, this investment or commitment to inclusion at every step is the deposit for the future of great teams and, let's face it, the first UK winners of a World title will probably come from the SuperLuca era as opposed to right here, right now.

Commitment to inclusion is not only the deposit for the future of great teams, it's the deposit for the future of polo. Great post.

the first UK winners of a World title will probably come from the SuperLuca era as opposed to right here, right now.

You just made Mat and Spoons cry.

A perspective that ought to be retained/inserted throughout this whole selection process is that of national and regional awareness, inclusion and participation. Irrespective of the 'fairness' of the final representation and their cities/scenes, we should endeavour to include polo from the grass roots, so that even new or developing players/teams can or feel to be part of the 'road to the World Champs'.

By this I mean that it is surely for the good to have a range of UK selection rounds - within scenes, cities and nationally (stimulating awareness and activities that would otherwise not take place - a la FA Cup) - whether you view that simply as more opportunities for competitive polo or because you are serious about 'going all the way'. When devising these selection formats, can people better qualified than I think from the bottom up too?

By remembering to think strategically, this investment or commitment to inclusion at every step is the deposit for the future of great teams and, let's face it, the first UK winners of a World title will probably come from the SuperLuca era as opposed to right here, right now.

I agree with all of this, but for this year, we need to focus on getting something sorted very shortly.

Having a range of selection round is immensely desirable - but not practical for 2011. The event is in just over 3 months, which doesn't leave a lot of time.

For 2012, we need to sort something out for sure. And there is no reason not to start sorting it out now.