Home DIY

A call-back to my previous question about moving a socket.

I'm now wondering about adding a socket just because the cost is so negligible once I've bought all the other bits.

The socket has two sets of wires, which makes it a ring right? Is there an easy way to find out which wires are "in" and which "out"?

Online diagrams show a neat little circuit, but mine go back through the same plastic conduit.

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They will go back into the CU together but will split somewhere to form a 'ring' (unless there is some reason not to). If its all in conduit they probably sent L/N/CPC to each socket in order and just did one long length back again.

The pictures are meant to be simplistic to show the wiring connections rather than real-world installation.

The sparks will do a ring final circuit test to make sure the right set of wires of the two pairs are connected to the right sockets.

If you have swapped pairs or breaks in the ring circuit it can be fixed.

I have the dewalt that soul linked which was an upgrade from a cheaper bosch green I had. I like it a lot. One thing to note is it has a stupid sized hose port so if you want to connect a dust extractor to it you need to get an adapter. Dust extraction is pretty good, (but it's no festool).

I'd sell mine and upgrade to a 6 inch festool if you want it.

Almost all sanders have that problem, unless you go down the pricey festool or mirka route.

The problem that I find with the more expensive sanders on the market is the running cost is higher as you have to spend more on the sandpaper and pads (when they wear out). The collection is noticeably better but you still need to wear a dust mask because of this I'd rather buy the cheaper models.

Nah, I just hold my breath and work fast. And turn your head to the side when you need to gulp for air.

I joke, but, I do occasionally do this...

So do I despite supposedly knowing better.

The socket has two sets of wires, which makes it a ring right? Is there an > easy way to find out which wires are "in" and which "out"?

They could just as easily be a daisy chained radial with the other wires going off to the next socket.

The way to test is to disconnect one and see if the socket still works*, and then the other. If it works equally with either then you've got a ring. If it only works on one you've got a radial (or maybe a broken ring). Also check whether any other sockets in the vicinity are dead.

Though it doesn't actually make any difference which it is, because AFAIK it's legal to add a socket on a spur to either a radial or a ring circuit and the wiring would be the same for both.

(* I'll leave up to you how to do this without killing yourself)

One thing to note is it has a stupid sized hose port so if you want to connect a dust extractor to it you need to get an adapter

The easy solution I use is to make a quick adapter by cutting two holes on either side of a small cube of wood. One hole that fits the tool, the other for the extractor. You do need a full set of either spade bits or hole saws for this tho.

Not the greatest photo, but you get the idea.

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Cheers. So it sounds like for an amateur I'd be better off going back to the idea of a junction box and allow the extra socket.

Or is having the wires the wrong way just a case of the circuit not working / blowing a fuse? In which case it would be a simple test.

Missed that before my last reply. Thanks.

I'm wondering about a spur, but I gave up as I was struggling to find a matching fused switch thingy that I've forgotten the name of for the moment.

If you are 100% confident that the ring is sound and you aren't spurring from a spur then you can add one spur socket from each ring socket.

But... And here is the caveat, if you don't know you need to test or have an Inspection Report that tells you how it's wired currently at the moment.

It IS an addition to a circuit so 'legally' you would need a Minor Works Certificate to be kosher.

Thanks.

Nice. I did have a phase where I was making adapters using PVC pipe and a heat gun, works well most of the time but for the sander I'm always tugging at the hose and it would occasionally pop off so I just ended up splurging on the proper adapter which has been fair more reliable and pleasant to use.

Annoyingly I bought an adapter that Axminster recommended and it didn’t fucking fit! Home made ftw.

Our workshop mirka is the dogs. Pricey though.

Pricey though

Very. And the mirka net abrasives are also very expensive, very good and don't last that long in my experience. I've tried them a couple of times, how do you find the switch? That flappy panel on top bugged the hell out of me epsecially as I kept switching the fucking thing on when I was changing grits.

An easy way to work out what you're dealing with is switch the main cu switch off and remove the cover. Then you can see if you have 2 sets of wire at the breaker. If it's a ring it's not directional, current can flow from both sides of the ring. That's why it can handle much higher ampage. So you can take the 3 connections from one of the wires out of the back of the existing socket and connect it with wagos to one of your new wires, then take the other new wire and connect it where the old ones were in the old socket. Ring complete.

You should then carry out a ring test and ir test and check the zs is correct for the breaker before you fill out a minor works certificate. I've never seen a minor works certificate in the wild though.

I've never seen a minor works certificate in the wild though.

Yeah. Too many sparks giving out advice on forums. :D

Although I might stop that this Friday as I'll get finally qualified for C&G 2351 Inspection and Test.

I guess you would find more in schools/hospitals/government. Lots of forms saying, changed light bulb and detailing the h&s measures they put in place for all areas of the installation.

Daft thing is that as commercial and Industrial isn't Part P it's more lax than Domestic.

Yeah it is pretty annoying. Can scuttle off the workbench if you put it down wrong too. We’ve got a hook it goes on to avoid that.

Never really got into the net thing, just 120 and 240 for most stuff. The cable developed a fault the other week and the guy I share the ‘shop with (and tools, the Mirka is his) had a heart attack when he looked at a replacement. Luckily it was a simple solder fix.

Well done on the 2351. I couldn't do enough time in the trade proper to consider it. There's quite a bit of work and experience that goes into installation condition reports. Good luck with the exam although it seems like you are confident.

Although the company H&S fines are far higher.

The odd one is that a Gas Engineer can shut a system down immediately for being unsafe.

An Electrician can't. All we can do is say its 'Dangerous. Death likely ' but we can't lock off a supply past the DNO supply fuse.

Thanks. Been doing C&G since 16th Ed so 'time served' although I still feel like a fake.

Kind of fell into it from getting involved with Generators and sound systems when I was a Roadie.

Seems the main advantage of Mirka is the lower weight compared to Festool. I have been weaning myself off sanders where possible but most of the problem with pads comes from heat which is generally caused by moving the sander slowly. People trying to grind old paint off seem to come off worse.

The Abranet stick to Festool pads but eventually they wear them out and slip around. It seems to happen way more than the Festool although Festool pads do wear they tend to go at the edges from having a little too much pressure and therefore heat applied. I'm staying away from handling the Mirkas though as I might like them too much.