Tour De France 2011

To dredge a few posts back, I forget now where I read it (will have a look), but I remember a statistic that showed that in EU testing of cattle, clenbuterol was found in one in 80,000tested that were introduced into the food chain. Not great odds on picking up a steak during the tour that's for sure...

Should of stayed at home award goes to Katusha.

Have

have

Pedant...

"'Should have stayed at home' award"

Pedant...

jajajaja, coming from you this must be a joke!!!!

Anyway, for the lazy, the interview tatty-viking is referencing is here;

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

Wow, long article but interesting. I'm less interested to hear about the Lance speculation, but it lends a useful background and explanation to the use of doping in cycling.

One question though, does anyone know how much of a benefit doping actually contributes? For instance, if you were to hypothetically race two identical elite athletes against one another in an ITT with all else being equal, what sort of percentage gains might a doped up athlete expect?

I ask merely out of interest but with two scenarios in mind. Firstly, assuming that the marginal differences between the heads of state are so slim anyway, is it conceivable that a clean athlete could still triumph over a doped one? Secondly, what would be the benefits to a non-elite athlete e.g. myself? As a middling tier triathlete (usually c. top 10% of age-group) if I were to dope might I expect a few additional places, a kona slot, or maybe an outright win?

Just trying to get a handle on what the impacts might be.

I don't know about percentages, but anecdotal evidence says that doping makes a huge difference.

Greg LeMond was at the top of his game, whipping everyone, until one season he finds himself sliding backwards through the peloton. He can't understand it, thinks he's ill. He goes for testing and finds he's fitter than ever, only the peloton has taken an unexplainable huge leap in performance.

Greg retires.

Laurent Fignon gave pretty much exactly the same reason for his retirement.

What a man, by the way.

Most of the times on the climbs in this year's Tour were 10% slower than ten years ago.

yes. and Greg and Laurent were clean & innocent as they could be.

I honestly believe Greg was clean. Some people drive themselves with other things, not drugs, same as Obree.

Most of the times on the climbs in this year's Tour were 10% slower than ten years ago.

And for so long it was claimed that cleaner racing makes boring racing.

For the first time ever I on't feel jaded after watching so much cycling over three weeks - I'm actually looking forward to the Vuelta!

(Is it the San Sebastien this weekend?)

yes. and Greg and Laurent were clean & innocent as they could be.

Fignon was pretty frank in his autobiography about his own drug usage, which wasn't much.

Pretty much everyone who ever rode on the same team as Lemond has said the same thing, they never saw him take anything, nor did he ever talk about taking anything. He was almost unique in that respect.

Yep, Classica San Sebastian is on Saturday. Then it's the Tour of Poland. Woot woot!

GL & andyp I just don't know anymore, there's allegations, rumours and suspicions flying around about just about every rider that's ever been in any major race. It's just what you want to believe... btw I can't imagine anyone complaining about boring racing without doping, that's plain stupid

same here about Vuelta, CSS, anything. And then, the CX season :)

One question though, does anyone know how much of a benefit doping actually contributes? For instance, if you were to hypothetically race two identical elite athletes against one another in an ITT with all else being equal, what sort of percentage gains might a doped up athlete expect?

I ask merely out of interest but with two scenarios in mind. Firstly, assuming that the marginal differences between the heads of state are so slim anyway, is it conceivable that a clean athlete could still triumph over a doped one? Secondly, what would be the benefits to a non-elite athlete e.g. myself? As a middling tier triathlete (usually c. top 10% of age-group) if I were to dope might I expect a few additional places, a kona slot, or maybe an outright win?

Just trying to get a handle on what the impacts might be.
This article is pretty interesting, if a bit long (and fairly old): http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/Drug-Test.html

GL & andyp I just don't know anymore, there's allegations, rumours and suspicions flying around about just about every rider that's ever been in any major race. It's just what you want to believe... btw I can't imagine anyone complaining about boring racing without doping, that's plain stupid

same here about Vuelta, CSS, anything. And then, the CX season :)

I think that people within the sport thought it was actually held together with dope, that without it the sport would melt down, the dull racing would drive away sponsors, that the racers just could not achieve the incredible performances without dope.

Even though they weren't taking products, the organisers were as hooked on dope as the riders.

We are now getting a glimpse of clean racing and we like it, the organisers like it, and perhaps this is a hint of what racing can be like. It'll never be 100% clean - where there's money there's cheating, but at least the performances will be more believable and more admirable as such.

As for feeling jaded about riders and dope, try not to let it taint your view of every rider, take each rider on his own merits. Try to single out a few heroes, riders you are almost sure are clean, and cheer for them in every race, even if they come fifteenth. It's not always about winning.

Most of the times on the climbs in this year's Tour were 10% slower than ten years ago.

Could gravity be getting stronger?

that would help explain my own decline in performance over the last 10 years and the change I notice when I step on the bathroom scales

Yep, Classica San Sebastian is on Saturday. Then it's the Tour of Poland. Woot woot!

I'm looking forward to the Tour of Poland too! I'm really enjoying the 'smaller' races (compared to the grand tours, that is).

Any link to a start list for Poland? The list for San Sebastien is incredible! Gilbert, Sanchez (Luis Leon and Sammy), the Schlecks, Freire, Cunego, Port, the list is brilliant!

A positive thought, will do GL. I will also continue to support riders that I believe are clean even if other so called experts (who are just as selective in believing rider A or B) say they 'must' have doped. At least until proven otherwise, by agencies that can or cannot be trusted, because we have nothing better at the moment. Now onto racing again, indeed

Good one.

I'm a mahoosive fan of Dan Martin. He races like a motherfucker, tearing legs off left right and center. Doesn't always win, but gets me howling and leaping when he accelerates off the front.

http://tourdepologne.pl/index.php

Start List: http://tourdepologne.pl/t/lista-startowa/

Sweet. Cheers, SpeedWombat.

And who's the first rider on that start list?

Dan Martin.

Get in!

^ Cav thanks tynan.