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The doping thread is, for some reason, in the Track section. I don't understand why, given everything that has happened, you want to continue with this, let's not talk about it, let's leave it to the UCI, attitude. It's always been the people who really care about cycling that have been the ones who insisted on talking about it. I just found a copy of Cycle Sport from June 1999. Phil Ligget has a piece in there saying how he thinks the fight against doping is being won. Oh, how we can laugh now at his naivety.
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I'm guessing the team cook didn't keep the meat packaging and Alberto enjoyed his delicious steak and licked the plate clean.. they're up against it. I find it interesting. Hoping for a good writeup of the case when it finally gets argued in "court".
I want to be informed :) Between the
micropicoscopic amount found, it's presence in the foodchain, his conversion to vegetarianism (lol), and various corrupt agencies (and team medics) I don't know what to think. -
I'm guessing the team cook didn't keep the meat packaging and Alberto enjoyed his delicious steak and licked the plate clean.. they're up against it. I find it interesting. Hoping for a good writeup of the case when it finally gets argued in "court".
Contador provided a receipt for the meat from a butchers in Irun. The butcher will have records of where his meat came from so it's very straightforward to track down the offending farmer and test his herd.
What is more likely is that Contador's coaching team were caught out by the amount of clenbuterol the Cologne lab could detect, thinking that the dosage they'd given him was undetectable, especially as it was most likely in blood Contador reinfused during the Tour.
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no problem to talk about it, it's just so misinformed and accusatory 99% of the time, not very sympathetic towards riders who give everything for their sport. I will wait judging until there's judgment from people that at least have more info than us
I don't think it's that misinformed to suggest that riders performing well in the Tour de France may have doped, do you? I think recent evidence from the past ten years would suggest it's safer to conclude that they are all doping than not.
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What is more likely is that Contador's coaching team were caught out by the amount of clenbuterol the Cologne lab could detect, thinking that the dosage they'd given him was undetectable, especially as it was most likely in blood Contador reinfused during the Tour.
This.
None of the other GC contenders complained too loudly last year after his exclusion. Be interesting too see those plasticiser test numbers from last year and compare them to this after the introduction of the 'no needles' rule.
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• #3885
Obviously. It's hard to slip in under the rigorous UCI drug testing regime when you win that many races.
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Evans is squeaky (clean).
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I just found a copy of Cycle Sport from June 1999. Phil Ligget has a piece in there saying how he thinks the fight against doping is being won. Oh, how we can laugh now at his naivety.
Brilliant. And so true. I can't really believe we'll get to an all clean Tour when you consider what's at stake, the distance and pain, the race's that are within decent rest periods in the run up to the Tour (and their own importance) and the fact that testing is always going to be trailing behind the R&D of new enhancers due to the finances available at each end.
When you think that there is no other sport in the world that puts the body under such a level of pain and pressure for such an extended period of time in the public eye then you'd be a fool to think enhancers aren't an appealing option to all riders at some stage or another.
Anyway. Perfect timing for a week off on my behalf; managed to watch the full coverage each day on ITV4. Was such an exciting tour to watch. I remember going to Galibier and thinking very hard about who I thought would have it this year and could not single out.
Fantastic riding by Voelker; truly inspiring stuff. Glad to have been able to enjoy the journey with him. In the end congrats to Evans for finally getting there. You had my money at the start of the Tour this year.
And alas. No more Phil and his dulcet tones to guide me through France for another year. Each year I watch the final montage and it feels like the last night of the summer holidays before heading back to school. The fun and excitement is over.
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I just found a copy of Cycle Sport from June 1999. Phil Ligget has a piece in there saying how he thinks the fight against doping is being won. Oh, how we can laugh now at his naivety.
I don't entirely agree with this.
When the test for EPO was being developed and they retrospectively tested the 1999 tour urine samples. Out of the 87 usable samples that they gathered, they got 13 positives and 6 of them belonged to Lance Armstrong. On that evidence, the 1999 tour was cleaner, but Armstrong re-initiated the arms race.
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The doping thread is, for some reason, in the Track section. I don't understand why, given everything that has happened, you want to continue with this, let's not talk about it, let's leave it to the UCI, attitude. It's always been the people who really care about cycling that have been the ones who insisted on talking about it. I just found a copy of Cycle Sport from June 1999. Phil Ligget has a piece in there saying how he thinks the fight against doping is being won. Oh, how we can laugh now at his naivety.
Liggett has never been fussed by doping in the sport. I remember reading a piece he wrote for Cycle Sport some years back, just after Ullrich was caught. Liggett approached Jan and said that he was sorry for his 'problems' within the sport - Ullrich turned around and said 'What problems?'
Liggett thought this was inspiring, a testament to the stoicism of victimized riders in the face of adversity.
In my eyes, this makes Liggett an utter cock. He thinks he knows so much about the sport, the old school code of silence, the omerta, and as such he thinks doping is an unavoidable necessity.
The peloton is not clean, not by a long stretch, but it is definitely cleaner.As for Contador, I'm of the opinion that one of his other products was slightly tainted with another drug in the lab, in this case clenbuterol. Not based on fact, just an opinion.
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On the incentive to dope question, surely the only answer is to somehow link earnings to testing over a prolonged period?
If part of a cyclists earnings were set aside during their career and forfeit to loss if they were ever proven to dope, surely that would disincentivise doping.
As it stands, maybe we are seeing an inflection point where the risks associated with doping outweigh the rewards, at which juncture the sport will start to clean up.
In a way, its kind of like the investment bankers screwing the economy. The risk/reward incentives were wrong.
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The half life when it is in the human system is relatively quick but as I understood from the interview I read, synthetic EPO does not degrade in urine samples, i.e. you could test at any stage in the future, and the traces would still be there. Why this is the case I don't know, but it was made clear in the article that it was not a case of the synthetic EPO disintegrating in the samples.
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On the incentive to dope question, surely the only answer is to somehow link earnings to testing over a prolonged period?
If part of a cyclists earnings were set aside during their career and forfeit to loss if they were ever proven to dope, surely that would disincentivise doping.
As it stands, maybe we are seeing an inflection point where the risks associated with doping outweigh the rewards, at which juncture the sport will start to clean up.
In a way, its kind of like the investment bankers screwing the economy. The risk/reward incentives were wrong.
It's in a lot of riders contracts that if they are found guilty they have to pay back the team three times their annual wage, or something like.
don't see why it should go to the team, when they are often deep in the merde of doping themselves...
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It's in a lot of riders contracts that if they are found guilty they have to pay back the team three times their annual wage, or something like.
I'd never read this. Are there instances where this has been successfully applied? There should be an arms length body to administer such a system. Also, the team or main sponsor should be liable to financial punishment. Then you could start to sort the shit out.
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Anyway, for the lazy, the interview tatty-viking is referencing is here;
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden
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Anyway, for the lazy, the interview tatty-viking is referencing is here;
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden
I was looking for this for ages. Thanks.
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It's always been the people who really care about cycling that have been the ones who insisted on talking about it. .
you are such a hero Will. You do have a habit though of making this kind of statement the foundation of every debate you enter and it kind of suggest s that everyone who disagrees with you doesn't care. It's an interesting approach.
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About
Tour De France 2011
Posted by
@dubtap
Doping and the Tour de France go hand in hand.
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