Is it time to start calling out bad cyclists?

I can see how low people's expectation of cyclists is. If I stop, to let the car turn right, to let the guy out of the junction or even as basic as letting the mother with children cross the road on the zebra, the look of surprised gratitude is telling.

Yeah, it's simultaneously gratifying and depressing isn't it.

^valid points andrew.
that look of genuine surprise and gratitude makes me sad

whats the general consensus on using earphones whilst cycling? Personally i can not do it. Feels dangerous. Although the guys i cycle with can not ride without them.

^ earphone thread >>>>>>>>>>

sure i appreciate that but if all other traffic has stopped and a car is trying to make the turn why is it that you see a procession of cyclists just steaming on through. its not compunction surely its just following what others are doing in a shared road space. only reason im bringing this up was a taxi ride across london last night. the amount of shoddy riding was unbelievable. no awareness, no ability, no forward thinking, no concept of others.

Ah right yeah I know what you mean now, it's annoying for cyclists who stop too as it just holds everyone up even longer.
I was thinking mainly of a taxi last week who beeped me loads for carrying on and not stopping when he was indicating right/across my path.

whats the general consensus on using earphones whilst cycling? Personally i can not do it. Feels dangerous. Although the guys i cycle with can not ride without them.

Haha good one.

whats the general consensus on using earphones whilst cycling? Personally i can not do it. Feels dangerous. Although the guys i cycle with can not ride without them.
A cyclist wearing earphones was run down and killed by a lorry a few years ago in Streatham. The driver wasn't charged because it was assumed the cyclist hadn't been paying attention.

Rule 62

It is similar on zebras, the bus stops leaving the crossing clear, and cyclists continue to go over at speed no thought for the ped who might be about to appear around the front of the bus on the crossing. And that has been one of my boys from time to time... god help the cyclist who does hit one of mine...

Riding home every day I see a huge number of cyclists undertake the line of waiting traffic that's stopped for pedestrians on the zebra crossing at the junction of Long Acre/Endell Street. It's really getting on my nerves as often they undertake and hop onto the pavement to do it. I feel like a bit of a tit as I wait in traffic, while they ride merrily on, but it's just not a good place to filter. Frankly, cyclists who think they should never have to wait in traffic are just as idiotic as drivers who think they must always be in front.

^ earphone thread >>>>>>>>>>

i new to the forum so have not seen any threads on the subject. SORRY!

^? u sure it was a loaded dual carriageway? If loaded = busy then how was wrongway person on there without knowing? Needs diagram to explain better I think?

I assumed wrong way person was a cyclist. Happens all the time up here. Pavement cyclists (spits) hit a stretch of road with no path, and assume the 'walk against the flow of traffic' rule, which I seem to remember being advice for walking along pathless roads.

Always means I have to pull into traffic the let them past. The temptation to do a massive closeline, ever present.

Sorry, yes, should have clarified. Twat was a cyclist. It's common here too but this one was particularly dangerous and rubbed me totally the wrong way. Dude was hidden behind the car until the last minute, didn't stop or slow down before pulling out and just assumed that anyone using the road correctly would yield for his dumb ass. I was pretty much just suddenly on top of him and I had to make the snap decision of head-on collision or slip into traffic (lucky there was a gap).

WAC

Fuck, seems i got a lot to learn on the etiquette of cycling and cycling forums.
Ive only just started biking as i've only recently moved to London. I jump red lights and weave in and out of traffic. Thought it was normal.
All the gear no idea.

I jump red lights and weave in and out of traffic. Thought it was normal.

Are you serious?

Btw if you didn't have it answered before in bike porn, utfs = **use the forum search
**it wasn'tan insult

I think we've hit the problem on the head.

People literally have no idea that they shouldnt ride up the inside of a left turning vehicle, or that they shouldnt jump red lights

Are you serious?

Btw if you didn't have it answered before in bike porn, utfs = **use the forum search
**it wasn'tan insult

Thanks for clearing that up. Im learning.

I think we've hit the problem on the head.

People literally have no idea that they shouldnt ride up the inside of a left turning vehicle, or that they shouldnt jump red lights

boom

^^^ and ^ Yeah, it does come down to this. At the risk of sounding like the motorist with his, "how come I have to learn to drive, get a license", I have to say that there are a lot of cyclists out there who, if I had to guess, I would say have not driven a car or motorbike regularly, I mean, do not have their test. So they are using roads without a basic understanding of the rules and etiquette that apply.

I mean, if you did not know that there were rules and etiquette, and you looked at your average (London) road, you would think it's chaos. But I don't see that, I see drivers (mainly) exhibiting lane discipline, indicating intentions (with lights and lane choice) and so on.

And of course, if you have idiots who do not know what is going it causes two main problems (1) they don't know how to behave, and (2) other people find it more difficult to predict how they will behave.

Sometimes, and I know this is heresy, but I almost feel sorry for drivers and the responsibility they have as they have to drive amongst some of the cyclists I see, weaving unpredictably, never looking behind, not indicating.....

And so on....

I got to say, I can be an aggressive rider, get in there and stuck in, should I feel like it... but from a point of knowing how the road works and what other people will be expecting me to do. I got my car, my lorry and my bike license and I got my cycling proficiency back in the day!

Thanks for clearing that up. Im learning.

The best thing you can do right now to learn is to get yourself some cycle training. It's likely to be free or for a nominal fee, provided by your local council.

CTUK is one provider: http://www.cycletraining.co.uk/index.php?pg=164

Here is TFL's page with a more comprehensive list of boroughs: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11689.aspx

Cycle training is the best way to learn this stuff quickly without you having to guess at what the right thing to do is by looking at other people. Most of the people you're looking at and trying to learn from haven't got a clue either. I put cycle training off because I figured I could learn it all by researching online, and I was wrong. Give it a go, you've got nothing to lose!

^ good call.

The best thing you can do right now to learn is to get yourself some cycle training. It's likely to be free or for a nominal fee, provided by your local council.

CTUK is one provider: http://www.cycletraining.co.uk/index.php?pg=164

Here is TFL's page with a more comprehensive list of boroughs: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11689.aspx

Cycle training is the best way to learn this stuff quickly without you having to guess at what the right thing to do is by looking at other people. Most of the people you're looking at and trying to learn from haven't got a clue either. I put cycle training off because I figured I could learn it all by researching online, and I was wrong. Give it a go, you've got nothing to lose!

Thanks for the information but when i said im 'learning' . I meant i was learning the abbreviations people use on this forum.

Ive only just started biking as i've only recently moved to London. I jump red lights and weave in and out of traffic. Thought it was normal.
All the gear no idea.

Thanks for the information but when i said im 'learning' . I meant i was learning the abbreviations people use on this forum.

Listen to Bothwell. Bothwell knows all.

Fuck, seems i got a lot to learn on the etiquette of cycling and cycling forums.
Ive only just started biking as i've only recently moved to London. I jump red lights and weave in and out of traffic. Thought it was normal.
All the gear no idea.

Thanks for clearing that up. Im learning.

Learning is good :-)

A serious suggestion, if you want to learn faster, do some cycle training through your local council. If you're in London it's free, and you'll be eligiable at either the council you live in, or the one you work in.

Also, Welcome to the Forum.

Agreed, having done a decent amount of cycling in a fair few cities over the world, London - different kettle of fish completely.

I know all the things! About everything! Always!

I saw a poster in UCL today about a "bike buddy" scheme. I am now on the list to guide new cyclists from SE5 to Euston. So hopefully there will be one fewer clueless rider.

EDIT: the URL is http://walkruncycleucl.wordpress.com/

Because the cycle lane that he was aiming for on the other side of the lights is on the left hand side of the road. If you are going straight on and prepared to take the lane, then I agree that you should put yourself in the middle of either of the car lanes. But if you want you use the bike lane then your suggestion is that you filter up the left of the traffic, pull across in front of the cars and then, when the lights go green, immediately pull over to the left again to get into the cycle lane. Seems pointless to me.

Based on what the both of you are saying all cyclists coming to the lights should be in single file. Given the volume of cyclists that typically use this junction your joint stances are unrealistic. There is enough space - if you're considerate to the fact there's a big junction to the left- for two lanes of cyclists. On your search did you see any compulsory give way for motorists to cyclists?
The answer: no. If I had been a tired truck driver racing the clock with a green light with a faulty sat-nav unsure of my surroundings then I fear for folk that religiously stick to this position. NB I wasn't trying to teach him a lesson.

No. Both of those lanes have straight-on arrows in them, which suggests that you can go straight on from any point of the road. When coming to a junction I assume that cyclists on the left of the road may be going left or straight ahead (especially if there is a bike lane on the left hand side of the road ahead) and that cyclists in the centre of the road are going straight ahead (I'm assuming no right turn is possible). The only thing that I intuitively discount is that a cyclist who has put himself in the middle of the road will turn left, precisely because it will require him to cut across a stream of cyclists going straight on.

Unless you suggest I undertake along the straight of the bridge, at some point I have to try and get into position for my left turn early but unless you're fairly aggressive no one (on a bike) wants to give you way to get there.

Instead you create an entirely new problem by acting in a massively unpredictable and counter-intuitive way.

I'm not sure I can agree with that^
If you ask motorists what they hate dealing with nowadays it's left turns due to the heavy streams of cyclists on their left usually going straight ahead...a very recent and unpredictable phenomena hence that mad max/battle mode feel on commutes that I don't remember 5 years ago- a behaviour that I'm not about to help normalise with my actions- irrespective of what the paint says.

Though if staying out of the gutter makes me unpredictable then so be it.

What is your specific objection to being on the left if you're turning left. Assuming you can get ahead of the cars, you should avoid being left hooked. If you pull into the centre of the lane then you create the problem that cyclists going straight on will filter up the left of the cars into the ASL box, not knowing that you are there. **How are they then meant to position themselves? Should they manoeuvre round the back of you so that they're on your right? If you pull up on the front left, then those going straight on can easily move to your right and those turning left can queue behind you. This is how every other junction seems to work.

I don't have an objection to being on the left per se my concern is that on smaller tighter junctions sticking to the left is an invite to taxis in a rush/boy racers/motor cycle couriers and other inconsiderates to try and overtake on the bend. <- Do you think that is a good thing? If cyclists had the torque that motorbikes have then none of this is an issue but if you don't you should take a stronger position that obliterates that chances of SMIDSY being used against you. Once you're over/past/have turned the junction then drift to the left and allow faster moving vehicle to pass. But not ON the junction. As far as I knew, on most junctions only one vehicle should passing at a time NOT a royal rumble free for all.

I fear too many place too much faith in cycle lanes and paint in general: Most aren't aware that a hatched line = anyone can go into it.
I'm yet to see fines issued for the drivers that routinely park on the Waterloo Bridge cycle lane (northbound) that is a SOLID line.

Look at London Bridge (southbound) junction with Tooley Street: There are arrows suggesting the left lane is for.....you guessed it! left turners. Yet those going straight ahead stick to this lane so I'm stuck with keeping motorised vehicles at bay, then I'm swarmed by those going ahead in the wrong lane. THAT is unpredictable.
IMO what should be happening is those wishing to go straight need to get to the middle lane before the junction, if not, at the least be in the very right of the left lane. How? A look over the right shoulder. If there is anyone there that will benefit from the signal then do so. That would be predictable to other road users.

Nope, I've had a good look on streetview and know if from the various wranglings over the redesign. One thing we can agree on is that the road and bike lane layout is shite!

Indeed but there are numerous junctions like that mentioned above where cyclists insist on sticking left when it's just not logical or safe at all.

Sorry for being so wordy.