Confess about your geared ride

I'm back on the aluminium Kinesis because my steel Condor snapped.

Was meaning to ask you about the racelight, any good? Still looking at a frame and they are in the sale at the moment. Quite tempted.

In rode an £300 aluminium fameset bike over the Paris Roubaix course this year. I've done thousands of training miles on a £100 aluminium Ribble frame. I'd done thousands of commuting miles on an alu Langster and I'm back on the aluminium Kinesis because my steel Condor snapped.
Don't tell me that alu is no good for 'around town' or 'long rides' or any other classification of cycling because those statements are wrong.

Fair enough. But what I've been trying to say - perhaps not very eloquently - is that some people still seem to like riding older steel bikes. Some other people find this hard to understand. I'm suggesting that one reason could be that pound for pound (£) they might actually be better suited to some kinds of riding than a very stiff, steep-geometry modern road frame made of an inherently stiffer material (weight for weight) such as aluminium - the kind of bikes, in fact, that I see lined up in the windows of bikes shops near me, and lined up at traffic lights on my morning commute.

This, https://secure.bmtmarinerisk.com/files/sananss.jpg with an Alfine hub.
They fixed the stupid vertical-drop-out-with-hub-gear design flaw in the 2010 one and I do wonder what it'd be like with drop bars, but overall I'm quite happy with it.
Oh, and the weight distribution is all wrong - the back's much heavier than the front. I guess they put carbon forks on to either jack up the price or keep the overall weight down without any consideration to keeping the thing balanced.

I saw an electric blue MTB version in Wimbledon a while ago, wonder what happen to it.

Fair enough. But what I've been trying to say - perhaps not very eloquently - is that some people still seem to like riding older steel bikes. Some other people find this hard to understand. I'm suggesting that one reason could be that pound for pound (£) they might actually be better suited to some kinds of riding than a very stiff, steep-geometry modern road frame made of an inherently stiffer material (weight for weight) such as aluminium - the kind of bikes, in fact, that I see lined up in the windows of bikes shops near me, and lined up at traffic lights on my morning commute.

I sort of agree.

I think when most ppl talk about materials they also mix in style of frame. I doubt they actually mean take 2 sets of tubing, identical in every way bar material and build 2 identical frames and bikes. What they're really getting at is there is a difference between an older style steel frame and modern alu ones... and some prefer the former.

I've recently started to convert... but most of that is due to the hassle of trying to change bars/stems. If I had the cash for a bike fit and only done it once I'd prolly still be all over the old skool.

Edit: mos def agree on the £ point. Plus classic frames hold their value.

Fair enough. But what I've been trying to say - perhaps not very eloquently - is that some people still seem to like riding older steel bikes. Some other people find this hard to understand. I'm suggesting that one reason could be that pound for pound (£) they might actually be better suited to some kinds of riding than a very stiff, steep-geometry modern road frame made of an inherently stiffer material (weight for weight) such as aluminium - the kind of bikes, in fact, that I see lined up in the windows of bikes shops near me, and lined up at traffic lights on my morning commute.

Aluminium is not stiff. It has to be made oversize because it is not as stiff as steel. I refer to Young's Modulus for the geeks...

http://www-materials.eng.cam.ac.uk/mpsite/physics/introduction/e-rho_metals.jpg

^ classic eg.

and yes chains don't 'stretch' either ;)

Having done a fair few climbs on my BJ. I've fallen out of favour with the whole threaded-fork/ quill stem set-up.

Fucking hell yes. Building an older Raleigh frame at the moment and fitting a threaded headset and quill has been a right faff. If it wasn't hard enough to find a new headset that fits in to the categories of 'decent quality', 'doesn't look crap 'and is 'not fucking expensive', but I then need a 'professional' to fit it to the frame. Then I needed to buy a headset wrench so I can adjust the race, which again is a faff to do. Now I need to bugger about with finding the right size stem and handlebar combo....25.4/26/26.4/Fuck off!

Give me an ahead stem a couple of allen keys and an integrated headset anyday, and no I really don't care what Chris King says.

But quill stems look so purdy!

You got one on your new bike then?

@hoops: this is not the reader's wives thread.

What's the deal with ahead set converters? Do they actually make a difference to stiffness etc or is it more or less the same?

In my limited experience YES. Got fed up of the swaying motion and creaking when sprinting up hills and recently put a converter and ahead stem on. MUCH BETTER.
To be fair I was using a 110mm stem with profile airwings, so I would have been getting a lot of leverage onto the stem when out of the saddle and pulling on the ends of the bars, but then I have the same bars now...

Seems like basic physics to me - any load applied to a quill stem is transferred along it's length - back to the bolt, but also down into the headtube, and the single section of metal will inevitable flex between those two directions. An ahead stem transfers the load back to the headtube, where a different section of material supports the stem (N.B. this makes complete sense inside my head).

Quill stems are lovely to look at, but a cheap one versus a cheap ahead stem will always lose in the stiffness stakes. I did ride with a Nitto Jag for a bit, and that was great, but they are $$$.

Lightness is often given presidence over durability

Gerald Ford v George Bush?

I believe the word you were struggling for is 'precedence'.

Was meaning to ask you about the racelight, any good? Still looking at a frame and they are in the sale at the moment. Quite tempted.

Yes. It did Paris-Roubaix and I'm riding it at the moment for commuting. Really nice.

Fucking hell yes. Building an older Raleigh frame at the moment and fitting a threaded headset and quill has been a right faff. If it wasn't hard enough to find a new headset that fits in to the categories of 'decent quality', 'doesn't look crap 'and is 'not fucking expensive', but I then need a 'professional' to fit it to the frame. Then I needed to buy a headset wrench so I can adjust the race, which again is a faff to do. Now I need to bugger about with finding the right size stem and handlebar combo....25.4/26/26.4/Fuck off!
you need my Cinelli stem and bars. look into my eyes. you will swap for LFGSS cap

Give me an ahead stem a couple of allen keys and an integrated headset anyday, and no I really don't care what Chris King says.

you need my Cinelli stem and bars. look into my eyes. you will swap for LFGSS cap

In my limited experience YES. Got fed up of the swaying motion and creaking when sprinting up hills and recently put a converter and ahead stem on. MUCH BETTER.
To be fair I was using a 110mm stem with profile airwings, so I would have been getting a lot of leverage onto the stem when out of the saddle and pulling on the ends of the bars, but then I have the same bars now...

Seems like basic physics to me - any load applied to a quill stem is transferred along it's length - back to the bolt, but also down into the headtube, and the single section of metal will inevitable flex between those two directions. An ahead stem transfers the load back to the headtube, where a different section of material supports the stem (N.B. this makes complete sense inside my head).

Quill stems are lovely to look at, but a cheap one versus a cheap ahead stem will always lose in the stiffness stakes. I did ride with a Nitto Jag for a bit, and that was great, but they are $$$.

Thanks man, I've been wanting to know that for ages and no-one ever answered my question. I think it's probably better for me as I seem to get quite a bit of flex through the stem when I'm out of the saddle which is unnerving. Shame they don't look as nice though...

all my bikes are made of pieceofcraptanium.

ftfy

Gerald Ford v George Bush?

I believe the word you were struggling for is 'precedence'.

And I believe the word you're not struggling for in the slightest is 'pedantry'.

When it comes to frames why, oh why, do people start bitching about materials so much? Hippy, you're a shocker for this. Fact is modern materials can be fantastic (talking carbon, titanium and alu [although it's hardly all that modern]) when it comes to lightness and stiffness - both great for transferring power to performance.

However, one thing that some older, lugged, steel frames do have in abundance that their modern cousins don't have as much of is character. Although if you're competing in a triathlon don't do it on a 1950s Carlton and expect to win. If you're commuting or scooting around town generally and actually have an eye for design, and appreciate history, then dig the Carlton out.

Regardless, either way, you'll be doing whatever you choose to do on a bicycle and surely that's the whole bloody point.

When it comes to frames why, oh why, do people start bitching about materials so much? Hippy, you're a shocker for this. Fact is modern materials can be fantastic (talking carbon, titanium and alu [although it's hardly all that modern]) when it comes to lightness and stiffness - both great for transferring power to performance.

However, one thing that some older, lugged, steel frames do have in abundance that their modern cousins don't have as much of is character. Although if you're competing in a triathlon don't do it on a 1950s Carlton and expect to win. If you're commuting or scooting around town generally and actually have an eye for design, and appreciate history, then dig the Carlton out.

Regardless, either way, you'll be doing whatever you choose to do on a bicycle and surely that's the whole bloody point.

What did the other poster do that lead me to my comments. Oh they talked about frame materials

What are you doing? Oh, that's right you're talking about frame materials.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Don't tell me about character and shit. I love old bikes. What I don't like is people trying to tell me that 25 year old steel is the only thing suitable for long rides or aluminium is too harsh to use for anything other than commuting.

I'll make you a deal. I won't mention frame materials so long as no other fucker decides that alu is too stiff, ti is too whippy, carbon is too breakable, steel is like chamois creme in your arse crack, blah blah...

Don't sprout bullshit and I won't need to shoot it down.

Don't tell me about character and shit. I love old bikes. What I don't like is people trying to tell me that 25 year old steel is the only thing suitable for long rides or aluminium is too harsh to use for anything other than commuting.

I'll make you a deal. I won't mention frame materials so long as no other fucker decides that alu is too stiff, ti is too whippy, carbon is too breakable, steel is like chamois creme in your arse crack, blah blah...

Don't sprout bullshit and I won't need to shoot it down.

If you look at my post again you'll see that I'm talking about the positives of both modern and traditional frame materials in an effort to to give each the kudos they deserve.

You're not talking about frame materials you're talking about old bike's 'character'.

You're not talking about frame materials you're talking about old bike's 'character'.

No, I have talked about 'character' which is tricky to define, but I've also talked about how modern materials give any decent rider a competitive edge. Something that they excel at compared to oldskool lugged steel frames.

However, where character is concerned older frames do seem to have more of it than their modern counterparts. I'm not sure why this is to be honest and think that much of it may simply be down to nostalgia and dare I say it 'romanticism' but it's there nonetheless.

I'm not having a dig, just being forthright in my opinion. And that's all it is ultimately.

Are you talking about the character of an old frame in terms of its appearance or handling properties or are you talking in terms of some property of the material the frame was built with? Do older frames perhaps add a little spring to your buttocks you find newer machines lack? Do they rub you in ways carbon or scandium couldn't hope to mimic?