Nodder/Fixie Skidder

Can we also get some stickers that say 'BAD FUCKING DRIVER' to stick on vehicles as they cut us up?
There were some stickers once, here, giving birth to this.

Yeah? Most drivers think they're much better than they are. The same goes for cyclists. The difference is, car drivers can't just jump into a car without any prior training and just drive wherever and however they want.

How did you find cycling training by the way?

There were some stickers once, here, giving birth to this.

and a t shirt still available [writing reversed so it can be read in car mirrors]

anyone dig out that pic of Jonny wearing his?

I don't think this forum could agree on anything, never mind this. But there is a definite sense of exclusivity here. Personally I like seeing new people cycling, I just wish some of them realised how dangerous they were to themselves and others and considered some training before they started commuting to work.

I'm very tempted to get all the qualified cycle instructors on here to make up business cards that I can distribute to people who need training but fear that would piss them off.

Yes, of course there is not really a 'forum opinion' but there is a tone. And it took a new member pointing it out to make me notice it really; after a while I think we become so used to the forum that we don't hear it anymore. In fact I say 'the forum' but it's a pretty small proportion of the whole membership that make the majority of posts and set that tone (I think, maybe Velocio has statistics to prove me wrong). And that tone is quite often that if your face doesn't fit then you are not welcome and most cyclists' faces don't fit. I wish it was about their abilities but I don't think it is. Sometimes the excuse that they are fair-weather cyclists is used, that they have the temerity only to ride when the weather is nice, but again I don't think that's what it is either. I think it is mostly just good old fashioned snobbery; they are not PLU.
I suppose this is an observation about the forum in general; that often new members are told that the tone is just one of banter amongst a group of people who "know each other in real life" but from newer members I hear that to them it just sounds like a group of people who have solidified in to cliques who only tolerate incomers if those incomers are willing to toe the line. The contempt and antipathy toward what you might call 'normal' commuters seems to me another expression of this circling the wagons. There are many well justified criticisms to be made of the average standard of cycling in London (and questions about how another few thousand cyclists would fit on the roads) but often the way those criticisms are made on here - again, the tone - strikes me as having more to do with a desire to maintain a certain self-appointed status.

Why is there no 'like' button on here? Make it quicker and easier ^

What do you mean?

What do you mean?

you don't have facebook do you

but most of the people on this forum ride with very little care or awareness of what's going on around them.
they are too busy looking good.

except for gerald. he looks good and rides good.

you don't have facebook do you

I do, but have no idea what its purpose is.

Our snobbery about fluoro-nodders is just a manifestation of standard group behaviour: we have to have our enemies or 'others' to define ourselves against. Whatever we are, and we really don't know what we are, we're not that.

It's all bollocks, of course, and it (rightly) goes out of the window when we hear that another cyclist has been killed under the wheels of an HGV, and we stop to reflect on our common vulnerabilities.

^True up to a point but I think there is, as with any other group, also the element of pressure within the group, people not objecting or saying what they think for fear of losing their place or being shunned and people wanting to feel included so adapting to the prevailing mores. Which includes uncritically adopting the argot; nodders being a fine example. This place is more hierarchical than it likes to admit. It's a lot like school. There are groups within groups and cliques within cliques in this Rumsfeldesque world of weirdness.
The reaction to deaths and other tragedies is not incompatible with this view; we would have to be a collective of psychopaths to react in any other way.

something interesting to read today ^
"It's a lot like school" I suggested this about a year ago, got slated for it....
people are sharp though, I like that, its not big or clever, but have always been somewhat harsh by nature, like nature.

^True up to a point but I think there is, as with any other group, also the element of pressure within the group, people not objecting or saying what they think for fear of losing their place or being shunned and people wanting to feel included so adapting to the prevailing mores. Which includes uncritically adopting the argot; nodders being a fine example. This place is more hierarchical than it likes to admit. It's a lot like school. There are groups within groups and cliques within cliques in this Rumsfeldesque world of weirdness.
The reaction to deaths and other tragedies is not incompatible with this view; we would have to be a collective of psychopaths to react in any other way.

and i guess you're standing on the sidelines not in a group?

Will - if you can come up with a better description of the novice cyclist than 'nodder' I'll happily use it.

That said, is nodder not the perfect description, given the riding style?

P.S. Welcome to the world. School prepares you for it perfectly by the look of things.

but who will be the winners, and who will be the losers?

bagsy not being piggy. again.

and i guess you're standing on the sidelines not in a group?

You tell me?

Will - if you can come up with a better description of the novice cyclist than 'nodder' I'll happily use it.

That said, is nodder not the perfect description, given the riding style?

Well, like with Hipster there is no agreed definition is there? It may be accurate or descriptive for certain cyclists who do nod but it's use is not really restricted to those people on the forum. You are not, Andy, one of the people I would count as uncritically accepting anything on here.

P.S. Welcome to the world. School prepares you for it perfectly by the look of things.
Thanks for the welcome, young man. :)

nodders are the normal majority it's the tossers on fixies who are not right in the head.

what the fuck are you guys talking about?

@Will, very fair point but it applies to the way we treat people in general unfortunately and that includes putting someone down on the forum for saying something you found profoundly stupid. So instead of addressing it in a fair/nice way, there is sometime (always) too much enjoyment in making a fool of them.

it's because everyone on here is a competitive cyclist, it's the hormone abusing 'roid rage that makes everyone respond in that way.

It could be because your average track (or road) bikes are much much nicer to ride fast than slowly, so we get annoyed when our smooth and enjoyable progress is interrupted.

Which is why I usually commute on my touring conversion or my old roadster. I like seeing lots of cyclists on the road. I think it's great. My eyes hurt from all the flouro and helmets, but I'm hardly a picture of elegance, so I'll forgive that. The only road users that piss me off are those that put me at increased risk. And that old gimmer cyclist who decided to try and run me off the road because I passed him on the left (about 3 metres to his left, mind you)

each one, teach one.
as maya angelou says, if you don't like something change it, if you can't change it, change yourself.
We (and I use the "we" of us on here who love cycling, and want everyone else to love cycling, and be safe whilst doing it, to acknowledge the risks and rewards of it, and to do so coherently and with forethought) need to let people know in the nicest and politest way possible, that their actions have consequences and we want them to become better and safer riders, and to continue to ride into the future rather than just when the weather is good.
To do that we need to communicate with them. So Each One, Teach One. Spoke cards, having a chat at lights, business cards with cycle training schemes/trainers on them. Whatever it is, and whether its a personal thing or a forum thing, or some other organisation thing, WE have to do more rather than just blaming them, and spitting bile at them. Yeah they could learn by getting taken out by something or one, but wouldn't it be better if we helped them acquire the knowledge and experience we have easier.

Wiganwill has a point about our vilification of the nodder, but the problem is, there's no point in railing against what is, if you have no thoughts about what will be, and if we want them to go from nodder to sophisticated and knowledgeable cyclist about town, we may all have to give them a helping hand.

So time to overcome our politeness coccoons and get out there and speak to our cycling brethren and sisthren to help them be better more confident, alert, aware cyclists..

be well