Bad traders

Ok, but there's still a distinction to be made. As somone who sells on here, I wouldn't knowingly violate a rule nor would I ask another forum member to do so.

Just FYI, we don't have a lot of fraud on here. But what fraud we've seen has been roughly:

• 95% PayPal gift, and "sellers" outside of London, most outside of the UK.
  
• 5% Bank Transfer
  
  

And when we've seen stolen bike parts, or highly dubious bike parts, it's nearly always a cash-in-hand sale, exceptions being some PayPal ones but those who know they have stolen stuff avoid giving away identity via PayPal.

The numbers are so against PayPal Gift it's silly. I know of very few legitimate transactions that have used PayPal Gift except between people who already know each other.

Bank transfers, I only know of them being used for higher value items. If anyone suggested them for < £250 I'd probably ban them because there's just no reason at that price point. In person one could draw that much, and paying by PayPal below this level doesn't incur that significant a set of fees.

Thank you for clearing this up. I offer bank transfers because even though I would prefer every item I sell to be cash on collection, out-of-Londoners seem to feel excluded.

My process is simple. I send my phone number and email address and post the item '2nd class signed for' within 24 hours of payment, and I send a picture of the postage receipt. Not ideal, but it's worked swimmingly so far.

Edit: ^Oh, every item for which I've used a bank transfer has been under £250... It seems I've managed to add myself to the bad traders list.

every item for which I've used a bank transfer has been under £250

Yeah, that bothers me.

Are you really unable to use PayPal?

Even if you are a good guy, the problem with establishing bank transfer as being OK is that it creates a false basis for trust that the bad guys definitely will exploit.

I'm able to use it, but it's linked to an American bank account and it takes me forever to actually get the money on what should be a simple transaction. And I just really don't like paypal (for a variety of reasons from politics to it makes me do un-wise things with my money).

But I see your point about creating a model that could be exploited and I wouldn't be upset if you banned bank transfers.

I think I probably will ban bank transfers.

Though I still think an alternate mechanism should exist. I'll probably recommend https://monzo.com instead as direct transfers there require identity rather than just bank details.

The key point is being able to provide police with strong identity information if and when fraud occurs. Bank transfers, aside from denying all ability to be reversed, also hide identity as bank numbers say nothing about who the account is owned by, who committed the fraud.

At least with Monzo the identity is checked and the identity is used for Monzo > Monzo transfers.

Thanks, I'll check out monzo and will refrain from using bank transfers.

(FWIW, as someone that's donated to the site, I assumed my identity was known anyway).

FWIW, as someone that's donated to the site, I assumed my identity was known anyway

Only if any donation was made from the same email that is used on the site.

But that's still beside the point... the good guys are fine, it's how the bad guys use the behaviour of the good guys to do bad stuff that is the issue.

The difficulty I have is how to help people buy and sell stuff, but to prevent the bad guys getting away with stuff. As a forum we are largely successful in stopping bad guys, i.e. by others having this discussion and flagging this behaviour.

The benefits of PayPal, Monzo, in-person stuff... is really that the whole marketplace is more trusted and more successful if we collectively shut down bad guys by making it really difficult for them.

But yeah, not banned it yet... but it does concern me, so do look for better ways. The monzo thing is good, it's basically a pre-paid card, easy to charge and send money, easy to receive and use the money. They'll soon be a full bank which will make it even easier (and is what I'm waiting for before recommending it widely).

Just for clarity, and I guess where this recent conversation stemmed from, does a seller have to accept PayPal with buyers protection as one of their forms of payment when selling an item?

Someone in Scotland that I've never met sent me £375 through PayPal gift this week. Good job I'm honest huh.

The wording of the rule would suggest not. 'If paypal transaction' requires the existence of 'if not paypal transaction'.

You've got done, bit of grief as you didn't get the deal you wanted but hey. Unless cash changed hands I'll say it's at most a sour grape situation.

He's wasted your time, he went against his words but hey ho he didn't take any dosh nor did you loose any.

I mean if it is posted. But yeah, this wording is why I ask.

but it's linked to an American bank account

Just the kind of story that would make me assume I'm being scammed, no offence!

In which case you'd decide to not to conduct a transaction with me and move on, rather than complain about it here.

(And whilst you're assuming you'd been scammed, you'd be overlooking the unlikelyhood that I'd suddenly scam someone over a £15 pair of levers, just 'cus.)

For what it's worth I've found @bikes_knob to be a thoroughly nice guy and trustworthy seller, definitely belongs on the list of "Good Traders".

Just for clarity, and I guess where this recent conversation stemmed from, does a seller have to accept PayPal with buyers protection as one of their forms of payment when selling an item?

No, not at all.

But whatever payment method is used should either be cash in person, or the seller should bear the larger part of the risk.

It's not reasonable to expect buyers to bear the majority of the risk when merely purchasing online already is risky.

Well EBM, in the end I think you did the right thing for you, you didn't buy and it does seem a strange reason to be given, although I have bought once from CN and his shipping was quicker than others from this country, my only concern was been asked to pay with PayPal as a gift but I took the gamble and luckily it went very smoothly, (as a rule I don't normally do this with new sellers), I can't understand why PayPal was offered to me and not to you and my only guess is with your amount it would not be expected to ask for it as a gift, I think this site wants to protect buyers hence it does ask people not to pay as paypal gifts. Perhaps there should be a rule for sellers to state the full amount they are selling items for which includes the PayPal fee, so paying as a gift doesn't become the norm, as I said before I think PayPal gift can and does work especially when both parties have had experiences with each other, Don't know why some have acted so angrily to your comment EBM after all it was just your opinion.

https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/299116/#comment13432594

I know the thread is already closed but this frame sold for about 800 less 2 weeks ago on ebay.de Paint is awful, price is awful

So it was stated last week that the item I paid last Friday was posted on Saturday. It has not arrived yet and the man is not on here as much so he hasn't received my message re. the tracking so I can go to my local post office . Fair enough.

But what now concerns me is that I get an undeliverable from his .hotmail.

Is it possible that I can pay this address with paypal but is would not work as mail?

AFAIK there is no need for an email used to sign up to PayPal to remain active, once the initial verification email has been responded to

Thank you for that information. Seller seems very trustworthy so will give it until next week.

Seller's looking into the tracking for nearly a day now.

Which might want me to escalate this quicker then next week :-/

Popcorn.

Do you know how/where they posted it?