Cycling Fitness / Training Advice

I've just done the FTP Test (shorter) on Zwift and have a 44 watt difference between what's Zwifts telling me and the Garmin FTP detector (Garmin is higher). That's a pretty big difference....anyone had experience of this and which one should I be going on? Should say this is the first time I've done an indoor test and had used the Garmin detector thing prior to this.

IME wrist based optical hr is always a bit shit, and is especially sensitive to hand/wrist positions on bike. I have low blood pressure though, dunno how that might be effecting it.

its been quite steady for the last 2 years. i think the whole unit is on the blink as it has reset on it own 4 or 5 times and also turning off the heart rate monitoring on its own. its a shame as its been an ok watch for the last 3 years. i complained about it but it has been fairly steady. I just fancy trying a different brand

Garmin’s auto calculator is way out for all metrics for me. I tried to read about how they do the calculations but it’s a bit opaque and I got bored.

For cycling garmin estimates something like 30 W under a ramp test, but it’s dealing with incomplete data since not all my bikes have power meters.

For running (for which garmin has complete data with chest strap) garmin spent all year telling me my threshold pace was 4:30/km despite giving me a predicted marathon time of 2:45 and me having run an actual marathon in 3:03.

I have very little confidence in their numbers.

I've just done the FTP Test (shorter) on Zwift

What does this entail? Could you post your Garmin/Strava activity?

Yes, don't know if this link will work:

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/5809738268

https://www.strava.com/activities/4325891189

I've just had Covid so pathetic watts!

Cool, so i assume the first lap was a warm-up and the 2nd lap was the test?
The test averaged at 174w, multiply that by 95% and that'll give you an (hour) FTP of 165w.
What FTP did Zwift give you?

Also, just out of curiosity, what PM are you using? That power graph looks really jumpy, at least when I compare it to mine today. You on rollers or a turbo?

Power graph looks very much like mine (Specialized power crank via Garmin connect / on rollers). I did wonder if there was a way to ‘smooth’ the trace by having it plot 10 second average power or similar - maybe you have something like that set, but can’t actually see your Strava page so 🤔

Edit -Actually my power graph not quite that jumpy!

Think the Garmin calculation just calculates on max efforts over various time periods greater than (i think) 3 or 5 minutes. So if your power over one of these periods <20 mins resulted in a calculation of a higher FTP it would tell you that.
If you get on intervals.icu this does the same, and you can increase the minimum time period (think default is 3 min). Might give you a bit more information on the discrepancy

edit: took a look at the garmin file and yeah doesn't look like that has happened. no idea where Garmin has got that from

Yep, essentially this:
5min from 30 to 70% FTP
20sec @ 90% FTP
20sec @ 110% FTP
20sec @ 130% FTP
3min @ 60% FTP
3min @ 110% FTP
2min @ 120% FTP
6min @ 55% FTP
20min free ride
5min from 50 to 30% FTP

Zwift gave me 166 but Garmin said new FTP detected of 210 and that's updated to that in the FTP section on Connect...

Using a Stages https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Stages-Cycling/Ultegra-R8000-G3-R-Power-Meter-and-Chainrings/J7DQ and Wahoo Kickr.

Yeah not sure why it looks so jumpy. I usually have erg mode power smoothing on but think I turned erg mode off at the start.

Yeah use 95% of your 20min power (166w). No idea what garmin does but it’s way out for me too.

Ah ok, thank you.

Cool, thanks.

As a good illustration of the limits of wrist based HR, I’ve just done this workout and my Garmin 235 failed to pick up the heart rate spikes and seems to think I topped out at 163 doing aerobic capacity stuff.

On another note, fuck me I’m unfit. Struggling to put out my old 20 min power for 50 sec intervals with 40 seconds in between.

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Ok, so i'm trying to remember the name of a website i had used which is kind of similar to intervals.icu but with a few differences

• it's dark
  
• the chap was developing a desktop app an had a donation page
  
• it has a nifty little graph that compares annual totals from different years/activity types
  

Ok, so i'm trying to remember the name of a website i had used which is kind of similar to intervals.icu but with a few differences

It's a chrome add-on called Elevate.

thank you!

I’ve had my most active year on the bike in 2020 with ~250k/~10-12hr weeks. All riding with HRM, with friends and pushing for Strava PRs. So Strava fitness score has been going up.

I’m thinking of getting Assioma power pedals and training with power next year, but I don’t have space for an indoor trainer (and I don’t really want one).

So, is it a waste of time to add power as a metric and try to do more structured training outdoors without an indoor trainer to do periodical FTP tests to track progress and set zones?

I can’t see a 20 minute hill in the South East that I could do a test outdoors on.

Is there any point in having a power meter if you don’t have accurate zones set?

Also, what’s the best application for outdoor training? I have a basic Training Peaks account, but I’ve heard Trainerroad provides more structured workouts for the cost.

I think I have a good basic understanding of training with power but it seems that indoor trainers are assumed as a standard piece of equipment in any advice I read online. Advice from someone who has done structured training without one is appreciated!

Depends so much on where you live and what access you have to quiet roads and steady climbs. Shorter interval training with power outside in the SE should be fairly easy, longer efforts you'll need to be clever with finding loops with minimal turns, traffic, big changes in elevation etc.

I wouldn't worry too much about test protocol (20 min or otherwise), you just need something rough to guide some zones. You could roughly estimate it from a shorter interval and then you'll quickly work out if it's too high or low from the actual training eg do some research on classic shorter interval training and work backwards. The actual precision of the number really doesn't matter as long as you test consistently.

Trainerroad outside will be a waste of money. Trainingpeaks is the best all round and you can plan sessions in it if you can't remember interval lengths when you are out on the bike.

if you want to do specific efforts a PM is a very valuable tool. But you also have to ask yourself why you ride a bike, if it's for fun, then spend the money on a good trip instead. If you want to reach your potential, for good reason, then yes, it will help to ride at set power, but still might not make you better.

You do not need a 20 minute hill. A 20 minute test isn't a valid way to set zones anyway, it's an approximate shortcut. I always like MAP tests to set zones/see fitness. But I also haven't done one in years. I have no need. Once you've ridden with power and feel for a while, you will be able to feel what is what.

I can’t see a 20 minute hill in the South East that I could do a test outdoors on.

Whereabouts in London are you? I can do a 20 minute test in two places in south-east London;

1. The A21 Gates Green roundabout to the Shampan curry house in Biggin Hill https://www.strava.com/segments/2348729

2. Corkscrew Hill roundabout to the B265 - can't find the exact Strava segment but continue this one to the junction with the B265 https://www.strava.com/segments/12841629

They are not perfect, as both have a couple of shorter downhills, but you can whack it into a big gear and keep the power on.

Love a bit of Shampan

Edit: In the top 10 overall for that #nothumblebrag

Yep, Featherbed is a good testing ground. Just the right level of false flat and just a couple of blind corners.

I’ve not ridden it for a while, but have just seen that a very strong 5 up have put over a minute into my old KOM. Looks out of reach now