Cycling Fitness / Training Advice

The 20min testing protocol is harder I feel (which is probably why I moved to Ramp tests and never went back).

I don't train anymore because reasons, but I struggled more mentally with the ramp test, as it was something you could never properly 'finish' and I hated being beaten by it

There's no being beaten by it though. You finish when your legs finish. :)

I might think to myself "you did 550W last time, can you do it again?" and the answer would often be "fuck no" but the whole point is it's merely a representation at a point of time that you can use to tweak planned workouts. If you set it too high or low you just end up needing to do more adjustment to workouts down the line.

Reminds me, I should probably start doing some training again. :D

I've been doing a ramp test to get an FTP number to plug into a 20 minute FTP test* (a couple of days later) in ERG mode. No need to worry about pacing, innit.

* more specifically something similar to the wahoo 3dp test, which is Critical Power focused, and gives better numbers for W' and p_max to plug into Golden Cheetah. Or something.

Horses for courses innit.

I’ve never actually done a 20 min or even 8 min test on an erg trainer and don’t know it would work. Surely the trainer would set the power output and you’d either complete the interval or fail. Or can you override it?

What I like about a ramp test is that you know you’ve got every ounce of effort out (as long as you’re on the verge of being sick).

you did 550W last time

Pffft. That's easy - I just do it twice and add the results.

See my question above re 20 min tests in erg mode. Doesn’t really make sense to me but I suppose useful for verification.

If I was only interested in a number for FTP, I'd probably just do a ramp test.

To be fair, even the 20 mins is arbitrary. You could just as well just get on the bike and rode as long and hard as you can, then infer an FTP from your power distribution curve for the ride.

As long as it's a max effort, it should be good. The pacing wouldn't be that important.

The problem is in how you infer an FTP (as opposed to a CP, which is relatively straight forward), as you end up multiplying by a somewhat arbitrary number to get a 20 minute or 60 minute FTP.

Horses for courses innit.

745.7W

even the 20 mins is arbitrary

Without a shadow of a doubt. It’s just a nice easy calculation to find your one hour threshold (which you’ll never be able to maintain).

Is that a horse’s FTP?

It's a bit of a joke (you know, the best kind of joke, that one that needs explaining).

1 "horsepower" is ~745W

Why would it skew it though? you are just riding a bunch of 1 min intervals are you not, where you need to hold an average power until you fail an interval? I haven't done a ramp test for years, all I remember is it was really easy and then really intense for a few minutes at the end and it gave me a massively high FTP estimate.

tldr @ghostface I hadn't seen that but yes, I agree with Jesse. This idea that you can cheat the shorter tests by sprinting at the end....ok, but if you want an accurate test, just...don't sprint at the end.

horses for courses

Exactly this. Do whatever test you can best execute a max effort for. None of them are perfect.

I race just under, at, or a bit over my threshold, so knowing what my max power is for durations between 20 minutes to an hour is important. I like these: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/the-physiology-of-ftp-and-new-testing-protocols/ as they are useful for setting TTE and then you can optimise the length/distribution of lactacte clearance stuff. Anything much shorter than 20 minutes I don't really care what my max numbers are.

If you use intervals.icu you can go out and do some short, medium and long max efforts and it'll give you a good idea of your FTP, I think someone said one max effort is all you need but I'd want a spread of sprint, v02 and long aerobic efforts personally to derive a decent number.

Why would it skew it though?

Because if they're providing training recommendations based on a dataset where 95% of people followed their instructions for their and didn't sprint at the end and you were one of the other 5%...

For a 20 min FTP test you will tend to get about the same result (95% of the average 20min power) whether the subject attempts to pace the effort, fails a bit at the end or has enough gas to sprint the final minute. That’s why it’s one of the better tests. I’ve done 100s of them with subjects and it always works out. The only important bit is to make sure you don’t shoot your bolt way too early and fail with like 10 minutes left.
Like people say it’s just an educated arbitrary figure to help you prescribe specific training.
An MMP test is a better pre-emptor for FTP than a simple ramp though.
Usually the protocol (for endurance riders) would be a ramp to establish MHR and zones, then MMP for power and FTP to tie them together. Lactate testing and a proper VO2 as well if you have it. Specificity is important but you want the whole picture to establish pre-trained or genetic strengths and weaknesses.

TLDR: Hippy, go ride your bike.

TLDR: Hippy, go ride your bike.

Is this weather? I'm so over that.

I let AI FTP Detection take another few % off my forever crumbling FTP too. I might go and ride the Crux on the turbo at lunch to see if my last saddle adjustments were better or worse. But idiots keep breaking things and that's just enough to keep me from standing up...

You’re no longer “Le Poisson”

Nup. I don't go outside any more.