Cycling Fitness / Training Advice

WKO4 is giving me a figure based on a variety of short to medium duration tests. Everything from 5 seconds to 8 minutes.

I watched a presentation that was discussing the analogy of growing ftp until it hits the vo2 ceiling. Then raising that ceiling and growing ftp a bit more. As we discussed before, my ceiling is high compared to ftp. But it got me thinking about how will I know I've hit it? Simply when ftp gains are no more?

With regards to the 4x8's, I've been grabbing workouts from one of TrainerRoad's plans. It's a mix of long sustained sweet spot and threshold workouts (2 hours) and shorter threshold/low vo2 (1 hour). I would struggle to do a 2 hour session in the evening after work, but can do 60'. So these 4x8's give me 32' work of above threshold work, with very little recovery. My question is, will I likely see more gains doing a 45' block of work at 1.0?

Who knows, depends how your body reacts. Only time and experience will tell you.

And that answers both questions. There is no answer. Think about your objectives and goals, and use those to plan training sessions. That way the work you do is related to the goal.

But I'd aim to get as much 'work' in as you can. So if you can do more real work by upping recovery and maybe dropping intensity and making the efforts longer. Or up recovery and intensity and keep duration the same.
So many options. But yeah, 4x8 with 1 seems pointless. Unless you goal is to be good at 8 min efforts of little recovery!?
Think about your goal, and prescribe training that suits that!!!

Once again, many thanks.

105-110%

Only the couple of times I was doing sharpening efforts before hill climbs but they were shorter, maybe 3-5min and went up to maybe 120%?

Didn't have any plans for racing this year other than my club's evening 10 handicap league, and have been training as such for this using Sweet Spot base and Sustained Power build plans on Trainer Road.

However I've got a hankering for track again, and will probably enter one of the local track leagues in addition - so a 10mile TT on Tuesday, Track League on Friday.

Only on week 2 out of 8 for the Sustained Power Build plan (sweet spot, threshold and a little V02), is it worth carrying on with this or swop to something more geared towards V02max work ?
One for the Trainer Road experts I guess

4x8's at about 105-110% (recovery 1' between sets)?

they are quick and not too tiring

Something is wrong here. I do 6x7 at my 20minute FTP with 5' recovery. It's sheer hell and requires a significant amount of mental preparation and HTFU to get through. I'm pretty wrecked by the end of it.

I know, all the feedback I've heard about these sessions are that they are really bloody hard.

I think it's to do with WKO4 giving me a modelled FTP at a long TTE (about an hour). Whereas if I was to do a 20' test right now and take the 95% figure, my FTP would be about 20 watts higher. Then the 4x8's would be tough.

Basically, for what I'm training for I need long duration, high sustainable power that doesn't need to much anaerobic contribution. So I'll be doing longer durations at .95-1.0 based on my FTP.

Some people 'react' to V02 differently to others, which I can understand depending on physiology, mental fortitude/attention etc.

Doing 32 minutes at 105%+ with nearly no recovery sounds horrendous - but would make you better at 15 mile TT's..

If you are trying to grow your FTP, maybe you need a mix of threshold and v02 work. I find that after a horrible 120% FTP session, doing 4x10 or 2x20 at threshold is more manageable, and doing lots of the latter certainly then helps long periods of climbing around threshold.

I've finally reached a rest week after 4 weeks of build. Last week felt the longest training week I've ever done, by Sunday afternoon I felt like setting my turbo on fire.

6x7 = 42min but with 5min rest in between each one, at FTP? How is that hard? I can do short intervals at FTP all day long if I get to rest for 5min between each one.

FTP is your hour power so if you're struggling to hold it for much less time than that (42min PLUS rests) then something is wrong. Unless when you say 20min FTP you don't mean FTP at all?

So you should be doing 2x10, 2x20, 2x30, 3x20, etc... not VO2 shite.

Exactly. Training plan has already been modified.

The only downside is these sessions require more time, which is already limited during the week.

or outside FTP, doing efforts indoors. Or tired from training.

I don't do outside/inside FTP and properly 'tired' means you won't hit power targets or number of interval target, it doesn't make the efforts 'grim' or 'horrific'. Someone's FTP is up shit creek if 6x7@FTP with 5min rests is 'sheer hell'. The whole point of FTP is that it's what you can sit on for an hour solid.

FTP is your hour power

Not strictly true. Will be for some, not all.

If you have time, these webinars have some useful info.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLnFajvTFuC8J0b-3ym-P7AXOhEAsqSj1f&v=Y_lM_h_eSKE

I'm not arguing about the quirks of FTP as a metric. I'm arguing that 42min split into chunks with 5min rest between each should not be 'sheer hell' unless your FTP is wrong.

If you're crap at turbo trainer it could be.

I'd rater do 3x15 with 5 min inbetween at a reduced power.
Or 6x7 with 2min rest at a lower power.

I hate turbo training. I'm fat so generate a lot of heat. I can still tap out a few minutes of FTP with almost as long a rest interval until the cows come home. That's the point of FTP, it's a measure of your 1hr maintainable power. If you can't do it for 6on/5off without seriously struggling your FTP is too high.

Unless when you say 20min FTP you don't mean FTP at all?

Probably this. I ride them on resistance rollers at the power I can just do all 6 at with some risk of failure on the last one.

Glad we cleared that up then. :P

Turbo training hates you too.

That's why I punish it so much.

#speedwork

Glad we cleared that up then. :P

Yeah - still can't face an hours time trial mind

Ride it faster.