Why you should always assume the driver has not seen you

so what do we do at green lights going straight ahead at a crossroads?? you can't make eye contact but do we proceed on the basis that the cars coming from left /right will stop???
in an ideal world yes but in the real world I damn well check my speed and watch the hell out

Obviously looking / being aware is incredibly important. but...

I always try to make eye contact with drivers, whether in front or behind. But there are numerous occasions where this doesn't work. At night? And i often find that glare is a serious problem. Even in the past couple of days, numerous drivers have been kind enough to allow me right of way, and I have only seen them waving at me as I get very close. I don't like to assume that they've stopped for me - I know how cabbies like to just pull out...

Maybe the glare is just because I am a short ass, and have a bad line-of-sight to windshield-angle thing going down.

Anyway, that's all kind of moot. If driver's and other traffic notice you noticing them, so to speak, I suspect there is quite a change in behaviour.

so what do we do at green lights going straight ahead at a crossroads?? you can't make eye contact but do we proceed on the basis that the cars coming from left /right will stop???
in an ideal world yes but in the real world I damn well check my speed and watch the hell out

Not sure what kind of junction you mean? Who can you not make eye contact with?

socks and sandals...nuff said.

helpful that the driver's first reaction is to assist someone with possible multiple injuries by attempting to pull them up off the road by the arm.....

not the driver

Anyway, that's all kind of moot. If driver's and other traffic notice you noticing them, so to speak, I suspect there is quite a change in behaviour.

I agree; you can try and make eye contact where possible but the act of trying itself, looking over your shoulder, or towards cars turning, is itself very effective.

incidentally, when a car that could possibly have right-hooked me coming from other direction at a green traffic light does indeed make eye contact and waits like they would for a car, i give a quick nod / wave thankyou hoping to encourage more of this behaviour

^ also very good practice.

defo good practice to thank drivers, manners cost nothing and maybe they'll think twice about branding all cyclists as lycra-wearing shitpiles who RLJ and kill kittens.

I was thinking the other day there should be a 'good driving' thread around here or something. probably being optimistic.

I agree; you can try and make eye contact where possible but the act of trying itself, looking over your shoulder, or towards cars turning, is itself very effective.

^This

IMO, he was too fast going into the roundabout...But to be fair, it's also a really badly designed bit of road.

I know, the speed seemed unnecessary for such a small roundabout. I always ride slow and cautiously at similar junctions, in my experience 50% of the time the car doesnt see me/want to stop. So I always make sure they have actually paused in situations like that before zipping past. If im on a freewheel road bike, then extra cautious as the braking is so bad compared to fixed.

Its the bigger ones where you really at the mercy of the drivers. You have to make a dash in the shortest break in traffic to get onto the roundabout and continue accelerating to stop them catching up from behind (they also would not have seen you), if there are any cars coming in from the left, its K.O time. Nothing you can do to brake fast enough, and its actually very likely that you are not seen. Ive had many near misses, mostly in good daylight.

My local annoying roundabouts look like this:

Also...the driver has the sun in his/her eyes, coming from directly behind the cyclist, so would not have been able to see much detail from what I presume was a quick squinted glance ahead.

The rider wouldn't have been able to make eye contact with the driver because of the glare on the windscreen, so should have adjusted his positioning accordingly done a huge skid across the roundabout to alert the driver to his presence.

If im on a freewheel road bike, then extra cautious as the braking is so bad compared to fixed.

Should have bunnyhopped the car TBH.

Fucking nodder.

Clearly (IMHO) the driver was day-dreaming. This happened to one of my sons 3 or 4 years ago. It was completely the drivers fault, but a more experienced cyclist would have seen the potential danger before it happened and been on the alert. Guess there's no substitute for experience.

I have, on several occasions nearly come a croppa at junctions where I couldn't make eye contact because of deep tinted windows. I can't understand why tinted windows on the front of a car should be legal.

i don't think they are ... windscreen and side windows are not meant to be tinted, although I think a certain level of tint is acceptable.

"Eye contact generally works" - Sounds dangerously like you're ducking your own advice and relying on an assumption there, Oliver.

Horrible accident, but only luck ensured the cyclist had minor injuries. An off at that speed, and across the front of a car, could easily have ended in at least a broken arm, or worse, a broken neck.

I blame the cyclist 100%, even though its obvious that the car driver was in the wrong.

It takes a special kind of person to cycle as if they have the same rights on the road as cars and trucks. Yes, they have the same rights in law, but in physics, car and trucks have more "rights".

If one cycles and is always conscious that any accident with a motorized vehicle could end with the cyclist's death, then some of the risks taken would not be. I've had several cycling accidents, and normally they were my fault. I've grown up alot since those early ones, and now cycle defensively all the time. No exceptions. I RLC(reep) instead of RLJing, because if I am crossing an empty intersection at 5-10 miles per hour, there is almost a zero percent chance of me being hit by another vehicle......if I have looked in all directions first.

Defensive cycling won't guarantee an accident free life, but taking unwise risks (even if you have the right of way) is only advisable if the vehicle coming the other way, is another bicycle.

Eye contact (as raised by Oliver) is essential. I turn my head round to make eye contact with drivers when I need to change lane, and can't indicate with my arm. In fact, a following car slows right down if you turn to look at the driver behind you. It unnerves them, and they slow to see what you wish to do. After lane chaging/filtering, I always raise an arm of acknowledgement. Yes, drivers do like to be acknowledged for having slowed to allow any of us to change lane, or what ever. They feel its their road (I know its not), and its good to massage their egos. They would be nicer to the next cyclist they come across.

And second I think Oliver is right; you shouldn't assume a driver hasn't seen you because you should not be working on assumptions. His point about eye contact is entirely valid; make it and you know you have been seen. gathered.

Assuming a driver will not stop has saved my ass so many times, and to think otherwise is ridiculous.
Trust he will stop ? or trust the driver to indicate and assume he drives completely error free ? No, you don't do that, it's something you just don't do, if you want to survive that is.
Preparing yourself on the "assumption" a car will pull out is pretty standard stuff, and like i said, it's saved me many many times.

Eye contact is optional

That roundabout is mad. The driver who hit the cyclist had right of way before the car on his left.
He obviously overlooked the cyclist or miscalculated his speed.
Anyway, they both completely ignored the cyclist, because of the awkward shape of the roundabout.

The car which zooms on the far right approach the junction like there's no roundabout. He should be the last - not first - to leave it.

There's very similar roundabout on Grove Green Rd in Leytonstone. Most cars on the main road drive right through the roundabout completely ignoring the drivers with appear from the side road on the right (even they have the right of way).
Far too many drivers choose to completely ignore the Highway Code.

Im surprised Eggwad hasnt posted in here yet.

It's too early.

I always assume that I haven't been seen.
But I also assume that every car driver is activly out to kill me.

I got hit by a van at a roundabout a couple of years ago in a similar manner. He actually slowed down as he approached the junction, looked both ways and then ploughed straight into me.

He admitted full liability. His excuse was it was early in the morning.

I thought eye contact had been made, instead he just went through the motions of looking without taking anything in at all.

Clearly (IMHO) the driver was day-dreaming. This happened to one of my sons 3 or 4 years ago. It was completely the drivers fault, but a more experienced cyclist would have seen the potential danger before it happened and been on the alert. Guess there's no substitute for experience.

I have, on several occasions nearly come a croppa at junctions where I couldn't make eye contact because of deep tinted windows. I can't understand why tinted windows on the front of a car should be legal.

LPG is correct- it is illegal to tint the windscreen and front side windows.

It's an MOT failure/coppers can (and do) pull you over for it.

Roundabout stress seems to be a daily occurrence for me - I tend to slow right down (so that I could stop if the motorist/bike decides to plough on), indicate very clearly, make eye contact and if the driver has made eye contact but seems to be in another world, I point at them! Effective, they do stop but winds them up a bit, a motorcycle this morning who was speeding down the inside of a truck, got very upset when pointed at! Maybe too confrontational?