Doping

I think they pushed to the absolute limits of what is allowed within the rules, so using drugs that are banned in competition but not out of it, applying for TUEs when there was no real medical need, etc., but there's no evidence of crossing that line. By the rules of the sport, that means they are clean, irrespective of the ethics.

I'd argue that if you think what they were doing was in isolation, i.e. other teams weren't doing exactly the same, then you don't understand how professional sport works.

I'll give you a cow for them.

Yeah it looks sketchy as, but still not a smoking gun. Also I'd be wary of tarring other riders with the same brush

Pfft us amateurs have to walk to a pharmacy to get our drugs. Where's the grass roots door to door drug supply we were supposed to get after those bloody 'lympics?

they pushed to the absolute limits of what is allowed within the rules...applying for TUEs when there was no real medical need

Applying for a TUE where there is no medical need is not allowed. Either the TUEC which approved them was corrupt (i.e. they knew they were being lied to but did nothing about it), or the applicant engaged in fraud (i.e. they successfully deceived the TUEC with falsified evidence)

but there's no evidence of crossing that line

True, but a particularly suspicious episode cannot be disproven with any reasonable evidence either. Evidence that, by all accounts, should be easy to obtain for any team with even half decent record keeping. You keep saying "no evidence" but that is the lance defence. I say, no smoke without fire.

I've no doubt other teams are doing the same thing, other riders, but they are not partly funded by the UK taxpayer/lottery or a knight of the realm.

Isolation?

I think they're all at it.

Now, whether they were within the 'rules' or not, it's hardly a zero tolerance approach. It's just more of the shitty same. I think there's questions as to whether the TUE was legitimate, what was really in the jiffy bag and a whole host of others.

Do I think the whole team were doing it? I have no idea but I'm quite sure they each knew the extent of what was going on.
I think the funniest thing for me is Shane Sutton and Dave Brailsford's weight loss at the same time Kenacort was doing the rounds and available to anyone. The vain pricks.

#DSdopingorweightwatchers #beetrootjuice
#marginalpies
#intestinalpains
#analsprains
#jaggingsomeveins

Andy, you are fast becoming a one man band for the good ship Sky. They stink, and I think you know it. No explanation for what was in the bag, really,'no records'? Come on, they are flying closer to the sun than Icarus.

If you can show me the doping violations they've made then I'll join the lynch mob. But, thus far, nothing they have done has crossed that line which takes them into anti-doping violations, despite what the Daily Mail might think.

FWIW, my take on this is that the most famous jiffy bag ever contained substances that are illegal in competition, but can be taken out of competition, so probably Triamcinolone and maybe some others. The plan was for Wiggins to take them right after the Dauphine finished, to strip off that final kilo or two before the Tour started that meant he would take the start as light as he could, whilst maintaining his power. The TUE was applied for as a safety net in case traces were found during the Tour. Whatever you think of the ethics of this, it was allowed, and is still allowed, by the rules laid down by WADA.

The lack of records might be genuine, as issues surrounding the administering of drugs have been identified in Team Sky elsewhere, or it might be a cover up so that no anti-doping violation charges can be brought. It's quite a complex cover up if Dr Freeman went to the trouble of reporting his laptop stolen over 2 years before anyone outside of the team knew this happened.

What I can be accused of being a 'one man band' for is the following of due process when such incidents come to light, and in this case nothing that has come into the public domain so far violates the WADA code, so no charges can be brought.

I also have issue with the fact that the Daily Mail is leading this, because I think it's a despicable rag, and it's obvious that one of their main motivations is to throw mud at a team sponsored by a rival media organisation (one that is, for the record, equally despicable in my opinion). The Mail also has an anti-cycling agenda that this fits with too.

https://youtu.be/0FrJTmB2QJg

FWIW, my take on this is that the most famous jiffy bag ever contained
substances that are illegal in competition, but can be taken out of
competition, so probably Triamcinolone and maybe some others. The plan
was for Wiggins to take them right after the Dauphine finished, to
strip off that final kilo or two before the Tour started that meant he
would take the start as light as he could, whilst maintaining his
power. The TUE was applied for as a safety net in case traces were
found during the Tour. Whatever you think of the ethics of this, it
was allowed, and is still allowed, by the rules laid down by WADA.

So this is how you turn a track rider into a TdF winner... Agree that it probably wasn't illegal but still, doesn't sound upstanding or clean either and that's been their pr strategy

Define clean? Bread and water only?

I always struggle to understand why it's okay for you or I to have prescription drugs when required, but professional athletes should be prohibited from doing so. The WADA code is accepted across Olympic sports as the line between doped and clean sport. As long as Sky stay the right side of that line then they are clean.

Well it's Sky that have gone out their way to present themselves as cleaner than clean.

Nobody is saying the riders shouldn't have had these substances-it's more to do with a provable medical need for them, which had previously not been clear or declared so people are then pointing out other contradictory statements made by the team/athletes as well as quite conspicuous anomalies in how records have been kept or relationships fostered with people who have a history of breaking the rules i.e Leinders.

Taking a substance with a TUE might be legal, but if the rider has no need for it then it's an abuse both of their health and the spirit of the rules even if the rules themselves technically haven't been broken. Unfortunately it just creates a context where it's very difficult to believe anything that's coming out of Brailsford's mouth and it looks far dirtier than it might have been if they'd just been as transparent as they previously claimed to be from the outset.

'kin hell @johnnyhotdog on the money with the "Brailsford was on the gear too" prediction

You need to charge your phone.

I reckon they'll find an order of Viagra next, and all these products have been for Brailsford, who's been having an affair with another Sky employee.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ukad-reveals-freeman-received-delivery-of-testosterone-in-2011/

Let's hope there is a paper trail to back up this claim. Using drugs that are allowed out of competition is one thing, using drugs that are banned in and out of competition is quite another.

Testosterone was for fran who manages to stumble from one media affair to another without getting sacked.

Doesn't look good does it? We accidentally ordered some illegal drugs but it's ok we got a letter from them saying sorry, so, no need to tell the boss about this potentially catastrophic situation because it will never come out.
And that's before you get to this "The Sunday Times article also claims that in 2013 former Sky doctor Alan Farrell withheld the team’s password for the online ADAMS system from Freeman in order to prevent him from applying for a fourth TUE for Wiggins ahead of that year’s Tour of Britain."
Next time Froome races all he will be asked about is this. And the next race and the next. The only thing that might temper that is if Brailsford goes. Is he indispensable? Froome is and I can imagine the conversations he's been having this week about who really matters at Sky and how much longer he's willing to be tainted by association.

Possibly Brailsford, Sutton, and (sadly) Millar too crusing around in a soft-top Maserati all 'sorted' and heading off to meet up with Ullrich for a night down the disco

Maybe froome has it in his contract that if either bring the sport into disrepute they have to go . "Your tainting my reputation so its time you went db" i make the money round here.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/05/team-sky-sir-dave-brailsford

There are good people working at Team Sky, riders and staff, and they will need someone to face the questioning in public for them as all of this unfolds, quite possibly in the media spotlight of the Tour de France this July.

#burnskitandcancelsBCmembership

If this is still dragging on in July, their PR machine is worse than I thought.

This is where I think Froome's responses haven't exactly helped either himself or the team-particularly he might have tempered a quite snotty response regarding saying 'questions remained' about Wiggins' TUEs as it was inevitably going to generate more column inches. This is especially strange in light of the fact that Froome himself has used them for in-competition corticosteroids in the run up to events that he's then won; same team, same doctor same TUE system. There's also nothing to say Froome couldn't have had any Triamcinolone injections out of competition that wouldn't have required a TUE to be used, so pointing to the number of TUEs any rider has had doesn't in itself vindicate them as a non-doper.

I also find it hard to believe that within one team there's going to be a totally different system or attitude to the usage of TUEs unless the culture was itself a bleed-over from the BC fostered crew, again, Roche coming out as a departing Sky rider and saying Wiggins' use of TUEs was 'ethically wrong' wasn't exactly a PR masterstroke, or particularly fair if he wasn't party to the decision making process that was involved in the substance being given. Was Wiggo expressly told it would enhance his performance, or was he just told it would kebosh his allergies all season and covered by a TUE so it was legit?

Regardless, it's been made to sound like Sky's been awash with the Triamcinolone, and then there's unnecessary use of Tramadol in finishing bottles, so in seeking to deflect attention to Wiggo or Brailsford Froome's responses seems to cast him as being totally naive, complacent enough not to bother mentioning it before, or just cynically acting like he's now the team prefect and diverting attention away from his own person towards someone who's no longer with the team irrespective of the potential for making the situation worse.

Brailsford's been a surprising fumbler througout though so he should go just for coming across like a shifty dickbag.