Doping

The thing I can't stomach about Kimmage is that he tried to ride clean, failed, rode doped, still failed, (meanwhile his mates from Ireland are doing really well) and so he chucks his bike in the canal and calls everyone a cunt. In a round about sort of way, he's probably made more money from doping in sport than many athletes, by crying on about it for twenty years.

haha. This +1 amend.

I read the book after reading some of his other stuff. Bitter projection maybe.

In a round about sort of way, he's probably made more money from doping in sport than many athletes, by crying on about it for twenty years.

What the hell does that mean? Maybe mafia prosecutors make more money than the lower ranking thugs but it's hardly a criticism of them. Bitter or not, where would cycling be without Kimmage and others who do what journalists are supposed to do? "Crying on about it"? You think he hasn't heard the same mocking bullshit before? From the very people who have been lying to us and cheating us and ruining the sport we love? Maybe you would be bitter too if you saw the people about whom you were telling the truth continue to flourish, to be lauded and fawned over while you had to put up with endless shit.

he chucks his bike in the canal and calls everyone a cunt.

This is Hippy you're talking about here.

^ Ha, top notch.

What the hell does that mean? Maybe mafia prosecutors make more money than the lower ranking thugs but it's hardly a criticism of them. Bitter or not, where would cycling be without Kimmage and others who do what journalists are supposed to do? "Crying on about it"? You think he hasn't heard the same mocking bullshit before? From the very people who have been lying to us and cheating us and ruining the sport we love? Maybe you would be bitter too if you saw the people about whom you were telling the truth continue to flourish, to be lauded and fawned over while you had to put up with endless shit.

^ This.

Kimmage ought to be applauded for what he does, along with the likes of David Walsh, Pierre Ballestar, Lionel Birnie, etc. They are credible journalists challenging the complacency of the UCI on doping.

Complacency or complicity?

Both. Allegedly.

What the hell does that mean? Maybe mafia prosecutors make more money than the lower ranking thugs but it's hardly a criticism of them. Bitter or not, where would cycling be without Kimmage and others who do what journalists are supposed to do? "Crying on about it"? You think he hasn't heard the same mocking bullshit before? From the very people who have been lying to us and cheating us and ruining the sport we love? Maybe you would be bitter too if you saw the people about whom you were telling the truth continue to flourish, to be lauded and fawned over while you had to put up with endless shit.

I don't mind the journalists doing their job, pursuing the dopers and exposing the practices, but in some cases, (Kimmage, Walsh,) they make it their career. THey don't look at the sport as a whole, but instead they just blast on about doping because, in my opinion, these are the stories that the popular press buy. Don't get me wrong, I really believe that doping needs to be tackled and the sport will be infinitely better without it, but I don't think Kimmage and Walsh are the whiter than white holy crusaders they sell themselves as. Walsh has constantly hounded Armstrong about doping, but for some reason he has never accused a cyclist he was far close to, namely Stephen Roche. It seems that Roche was actually an early adopter of EPO (something he denies), but Walsh has never gone out of his way to accuse Roche of such activities or to investigate them. Why? Because Walsh co-wrote the book The Agony and the Ecstasy with Stephen Roche, documenting his rise to fame.
No, I think the arguments they are making are valid, but I question their motives for making them.

You may well have a point about Stephen Roche. But saying Walsh has 'hounded' Armstrong is to cede the tone to the great cheat. He hasn't hounded him, he has done his job following what will turn out to be one of the greatest sporting scandals ever. Did Woodward and Bernstein 'hound' Nixon? I am not sure Walsh has written about many other dopers from the past either which may be the point; he was telling the story as it happened.
I think you are missing the point too in saying they should write about the sport as a whole; there are plenty of other 'journalists' willing to take that approach. That approach, in effect, is to downplay doping rather than acknowledge that it is *the *story. Doping has not been part of cycling for the last 20 years, it has been cycling. The Lance Armstrong story is a story about cheating. Thankfully Walsh, Kimmage and others did not think they had to justify telling that story by adding in guff about the sport 'as a whole'.

It could be argued that Walsh has pursued Armstrong with such vigour because he is the biggest fish in the pond, and to go for anyone else would basically be chasing minnows. I would agree with that, up to a point.
I wouldn't necessarily agree that doping is the only story withing cycling, although i do recognize that for much of the sport's history doping has been an intrinsic element.
I just have a massive problem with the way that doping journalists and the such publications as l'Equipe and la Gazzetta dello Sport strike at the dopers in such a way as to gain maximum publicity and to cause the maximum damage to the sport, not in the spirit of eventually creating a clean cycling, but merely to sell stories, books and papers. It's always a sensational exposé on the eve of the Giro, or the Tour, or the Vuelta, never when the allegations are actually discovered. They keep a lid on it until cycling is in the full glare of the world's media, then they let rip.
This brings me back to my main point - I sometimes wonder if the doping situation doesn't suit certain journalists a little too well - if doping went away, what would they write about? Not the positive aspects of the sport (excuse the pun), because they have no experience of writing such copy.

Sorry, Luci, but you're talking shit.

Can you show me the stories broken by both l'Equipe and la Gazzetta to maximise damage? You can't, because the don't exist. Given that both papers are respectively owned by two of the major race promoters, RCS and ASO, do you really think they'd slit their own throats?

As for these journalists who would have nothing else to write about, do you mean Walsh and Kimmage? If so, they barely cover cycling, as both have had briefs to cover all sports for the Sunday Times.

Riccardo Ricco hospitalised with suspected kidney failure (!)

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/7349/Ricco-rushed-to-hospital-with-suspected-kidney-failure.aspx

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/08-02-2011/ricco-nottata-tranquilla-8084685384.shtml

Basically, they are claiming that he self transfused his own blood stored for 25 days in the fridge at home.

Just started reading Rough Ride by Paul Kimmage.
Anyone read it?

Yeah, a while ago. It was a bit wishy washy in the 'revelations' in my mind. Maybe I'm too jaded to judge any more.

This is Hippy you're talking about here.

Ha. :0)

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/08-02-2011/ricco-nottata-tranquilla-8084685384.shtml

Basically, they are claiming that he self transfused his own blood stored for 25 days in the fridge at home.

WEST!

Of all the things to try at home, I don't think a Heath Robinson blood transfusion would be one of them.

From twitter "Renal failure sounds more like he grabbed the wrong bag"

you know like when you take the wife's sandwiches to work by mistake :|

Riccò's almost a caricature of a doper in how recklessly he seems to go about it and in how aggressively he's always bragged about it while being a complete and utter liar and hypocrite, and totally transparently so to boot. That ridiculous episode when he 'dumped' his girlfriend for doping, his general loudmouthedness and lack of likeability can only make you hope that some sort of Damascene conversion is on the horizon. I hope he gets well again. It will be interesting to see what his next steps will be.

Just started reading Rough Ride by Paul Kimmage.

Anyone read it?

I found it a tough read, actually.

From twitter "Renal failure sounds more like he grabbed the wrong bag"

you know like when you take the wife's sandwiches to work by mistake :|

The renal failure description is likely a falsehood to explain his sudden admission to hospital, so it seems somewhat bizarre to speculate on that when it's not known if he did suffer from renal failure, no?

Maybe it's a relief that Aldo Sassi didn't live long enough to see this.
If this is not the best possible argument for life bans then what is?
Oh and Vaconsoleil can fuck right off too.

I'd expect better from you, Will.

The likelihood of getting caught is a far more effective a deterent than the length of any sentence should you be caught. Ricco clearly believes he can still get away with it (assuming the Gazzetta story is true).

I frequently expect better of myself but if you don't post first and tell me what to think then what am I to do?
What I mean is life bans not as a deterrent but as the only way of ensuring that dopers can't come back, after lots of apologies and promises, and carry on as before.

Getting hold of PED's would not be a problem. I worked with a bodybuilder a few years ago and he used to get his wife to go and get him 'Supplements' from Russia, we were working in Kazakhstan. He also said theres chemists in Thailand which cater for bodybuilders and have menus with anything you want on it. In the US you can get stuff from Vets!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12380429

I frequently expect better of myself but if you don't post first and tell me what to think then what am I to do?

Will, you really have to stop accepting these little jiffy bags from Andy without asking any questions about what's in them.

I call them 'iffy bags'. Oh, the hilarity.