531 Help

like an IRO Mark V cro-mo frame, they weight about 1.9kg for instance, and it's not even butted.

Actually with a fork it weighs 3kg (6.6lb)

531 Professional tubeset is 1.9kg (4.11lbs)
753 track is 1.75kg (3.8lbs)

(now, what do they weigh built up?)

Aaaaaaaaaaaannnnnddddddd....

He has just bought some bike that isn't that useful, so spending fuck all on the raleigh if he can would prove to be a bonus, as Quinn says...that ribble won't be cheap in 5 days...the raleigh might be.

Its chainset is not suitable for a fixed wheel (it's Biopace which is oval rather than circular), so you'd still need to budget for a new BB and chainset.

I think you should be able to just change the chainring for a circular one, keeping the cranks, bottom bracket

531 is advanced gaspipe. and was only available in small O/D's that build into a 'comfortable' frame. i.e. flexible.
it was good stuff at the time when introduced in 1935 but is essentially the same as current 'stock' 4130 steels that you would use to make a wheelbarrow handle or a piece of farm machinery out of.

4130 is chromium molybdenum = it's more like 501.
531 is manganese molybdenum.

current steels like spirit/853/631/sat-14/zero-replica/true-temper etc are superior in every way to 531 apart from not being 'awesome' in an overpriced mid range late 70's conversion frame to fit you badly from ebay kind of way.

Of course - and these tubesets are much newer, exotic and and much more expensive.

I think you should be able to just change the chainring for a circular one, keeping the cranks, bottom bracket

yeah - I wasn't thinking there!

The Raleigh is only plain gauge 531 main tubes. Stays and forks are gaspipe, whatever the seller claims. Its chainset is not suitable for a fixed wheel (it's Biopace which is oval rather than circular), so you'd still need to budget for a new BB and chainset.

biopace rings can be used for fixed, they do not affect chain tension, the amount of teeth in contact with the chain is constant.

having checked inches ...yes it probably is too big, metric fail.

Secondly you can tell it's not a 'terrible' frame by merely observing the gap the back wheel has...it's fairly tight, which as you know means it will be livelier than some nasty gate that some of the foffa's were ...though I am sure you know this.

though I said that already, are you going to try and be helpful to the guy or follow me around the threads taking umbrage with everything I type?

oh...and read the damned post. I said the cranks..ie not the chainrings...are reasonable, ie...he can polish of the adonising and have a reaonable crank...spending...no money.

Unless you have something useful to contribute I suggest you stop acting like a child, and shut up.

did i ever say it was a "terrible" frame as your quote marks like to suggest? no.

large clearances do not mean a frame is bad.

i suggest you read my post, where did i say the cranks or chainring were bad? the biopace comment was genuine, i would like to see what they ride like, as they are rare.

my post was useful (as you agree), in that i corrected your mistake of advising them to buy a frame that is too big for them.

Tight clearances are hugely overrated imo.

Just buy a bike, ride it, have fun.

biopace rings can be used for fixed, they do not affect chain tension, the amount of teeth in contact with the chain is constant.

Interesting.

The more I think about it the more it seems right. But it feels so wrong :S

goes off to google

Sheldon, as always, has been there done that..

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/biopace.html

*People are often astonished to learn that I ride Biopace chainrings on fixed-gear bikes. They imagine that there will be tremendous changes in chain tension as the chainring rotates. In practice, this is not the case. A 42 tooth chainring will generally engage 21 teeth against 21 chain rollers, regardless of its shape. ** There is a slight variation in tension resulting from the varying angle between the two straight runs of chain as the axis of the chainring rotates, but this has not generally been of a sufficient magnitude to cause any problem in practice for me.*

RIP

AASHTA.

I was assuming you'd turn the cranks and get slack-tight-slack-tight- etc, but of course, thinking about it, it's going to be pretty slight.

He was a legend.

Tight clearances are hugely overrated imo.

especially when you mess with the weight distribution by fitting riser bars and a 50mm stem.

Tight clearances are hugely overrated imo.

Just buy a bike, ride it, have fun.

+1

My commuter has clearance for both full mudguards and 35mm tyres (just). But has 74/73, ST/HT angles, which help give quick handling.

FWIW and IMHO quick handling comes from a combination of....

Wheelbase
rider weight fore-aft positioning
frame angles
fork length
fork rake
bike+rider weight

...and probably other factors to boot.

blah............

Excellent, we are agreed then.

Hmm, just doesn't seem right, i will need a practical demonstration of this when i get home and dig out those old chainrings

I rode on bio pace for a couple of years, I can't remember it feeling that different...the shape isn't massivley eccentric, it's only mildly kinked. It wouldn't have any bearing on anything, otherwise shimano wouldn't have introduced it, have to change everything else if your chain ring was biopace would be commercial lunacy, I can't see them doing it if it was going to affect anything drastically.

I am about to put biopace rings on the lemond I'm converting for a mate, I haven't ridden it yet as I need a chain tensioner, though if they are weird I can easily find some 130 bcd rings.

Tight clearances are hugely overrated imo.

Just buy a bike, ride it, have fun.

This is all very well...if I put everyone in this thread in a room with Pengy...and something with tight clearance...

they wouldn't be riding the Pengy.

end of discussion.

4130 is chromium molybdenum = it's more like 501.
531 is manganese molybdenum.
Of course - and these tubesets are much newer, exotic and and much more expensive.

The actual breakdown of 4130 alloy steel is as follows:
Carbon
0.28 - 0.33
Chromium
0.8 - 1.1
Manganese
0.7 - 0.9
Molybdenum
0.15 - 0.25
Phosphorus
0.035 max
Silicon
0.15 - 0.35
Sulphur
0.04 max

so there is molybdenum content in 4130 but as neither of us are metallurgists with access to advanced teating facilities we would not be able to tell the difference between identically dimensioned frames, one having .20% more molybdenum in it.

modern steels aren't 'exotic' they are freely available from tubing suppliers and mass manufacturers use them in frame manufacture.
there are few NOS 531 anniversary tubesets out there if you want to pay a premium for a new rare and exotic frame built with outdated materials.

Inform yourselves..
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

No, really, stop talking bollocks about metals and read..
http://www.strongframes.com/more_stuff/materials_tech/specs/

This is all very well...if I put everyone in this thread in a room with Pengy...and something with tight clearance...

they wouldn't be riding the Pengy.

end of discussion.

If you put everyone in this thread with Pengy, and something with slack geometry, they wouldn't be riding the Pengy.

Was there a point to your post by the way?

No, really, stop talking bollocks about metals and read..
http://www.strongframes.com/more_stuff/materials_tech/specs/

from the above link

reynolds 525 114ksi
"525 offers a tube-set with strengths similar to the famous 531 range."

columbus spirit 177-205 KSI

(ksi a measurement of tensile strength)

shows how far modern steels have progressed. but it's not about numbers it's about how a materials properties can be used advantageously to make a light, strong, stiff frame.

531 tubes are dimensionally challenged and for lugged construction only which essentially means it's not light stiff or strong but these are the compromises you need to make to achieve 531 awesomeness.

This is all very well...if I put everyone in this thread in a room with Pengy...and something with tight clearance...

they wouldn't be riding the Pengy.

end of discussion.

unlike some slack frames, pengy is butt ugle, and pretending to be a track frame.

Tight clearances are hugely overrated imo.

Just buy a bike, ride it, have fun.

+1

.....yada..........

Was there a point to your post by the way?

Yes, brum there was, though you missed it...strange that.

Am I the only one who missed it?

Your post basically said "if you give someone the choice between a shit bike, and the bike that I like, people wouldn't choose the shit bike, therefore the bike that I like is better than other types of bike that were not included in the choice".

Great logic there!

Unless i've missed something, if I have, please be kind enough to point it out for us less intelligent than yourself.

Many thanks, Brum.