From the cab - a HGV drivers view

Last week I was shouted at by some Somali boy racers while crossing the road with the bike (no I don't ride on pedestrian crossings), because they had to stop for me. Wankers.
What was very sad is the fact, that the van driver behind them also was honking, because he was in a hurry. Like walking the bicycle doesn't qualify me as a pedestrian.
The attitudes of some road users are really appalling.

That would've been the slowest crossing of a road for me ever..

I share your dream too...
i also work hard at it (being nice to truckers, when deserved)

Nice to everyone and everyone being nice to each other. How about being make peoples day nicer by actions and words.

That would've been the slowest crossing of a road for me ever..

And it was...

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Actually how many people here drive a car, ride a motorbike/scooter, drive a truck? I have a licence to drive all of them and psv licence. I also have passed a car advanced driving text and rospa bronze driving test. I do not drive commercially any more and hate car/trucks driving through busy urban centres as I hate peoples inability to look and judge whats going around them.

I think that all of these discussions could be dispelled simply by a grand investment in proper bike lanes. I recently went to the protests in copenhagen, an spent the whole week cycling on what was essentially a bike pavement, at a different elevation to the pedestrians, and to the road, and that system is incredible. I know it doesn't have the rep of zipping through traffic, which to be fair you could still do if you wanted to, but it's so much safer, quicker and better respected by all users. Admittedly the investment and restructuring would be huge but ultimately, the government spends huge amounts of money on far less constructive security/health and safety schemes/locking up innocent migrant children/bailing out rich bankers with taxpayers money, while allowing people to regularly die on the streets.

And yes, my above post is obvious, it's three in the morning, not too coherent :)

I think that all of these discussions could be dispelled simply by a grand investment in proper road.

fixed.

a road that's suitable for both motorised and pedal vehicles.

I'd like to congratulate the driver for having the balls to post on what can often be a rather militant style cycling website. There is a fair bit of hypocrisy in peoples responses to what he has said, fair enough someone was killed which is absolutely terrible, but to take the piss out of his writing is very petty. All these people saying that wearing headphones makes no difference to the situation, read any of the dumb pedestrian posts on here, the number one gripe is idiot pedestrian wandering out into the middle of the road on their phones or listening to music through headphones. If its hard for a cyclist to react in time in these sort of situations its going to be even harder for someone in a 20t truck. Not commenting on this case, as I don't know all the facts, but to bitch and moan about the behaviour from pedestrian in one thread and then say its fine for cyclists in another is hypocritical. Edit to satisfy BB: This does not and was never meant to imply that anyone person posting on this forum held these opposing views, it was an observation that any third party who had the time/interest to read all the posts on this forum would find that most accidents/near misses between peds and cyclists are caused by the former walking out blindly onto the road normally engaged in listening to music on a portable music devise or talking on a mobile phone whilst the posts on this topic and in the previous thread on this incident seemed to give the impression that in no way was a riders attention impeded by a music devise.
For the record I am of the opinion that listening to music whilst riding does impede your road awareness.

I think London does need more proper separated cycle lanes, never used to think like this but after seeing how many people just don't seem to have the ability to ride in traffic it seems like the only sensible solution. Of course this is going to piss off the "good" cyclists who can ride relatively safely and quickly in traffic especially as they would have to be mandatory to have any real impact but I'd rather be stuck behind some frumpy old lady riding walking pass on her Dutch shopper than have to keep hearing about cyclists dying.

I hope everyone understands that HGV's have got rather bad lines of site from the cabs, with lots of blind spots something the height of a cyclist can disappear into. Truck companies are trying to improve this by installing those convex mirrors, and even some side object detectors. Maybe we as cyclists we should do our bit to make ourselves more visible and install flags like recumbents use to make us more visible to other vehicles. Again I know this wouldn't be a popular move with cyclists because it would look stupid but it would help make riders a lot more visible to HGV truck drivers.

Oh and I also think that for major innercity projects like the Shard, where large numbers of haulage trucks are operating, they should have to stick to a certain route from their dump site, with the roads marked and signposted as HGV haulage road, kind of like a cycle path for trucks, where they have priority right of way, cyclists are discouraged from riding on unless necessary or their is a separated cyclepath etc. If you can limit the number of roads large numbers of trucks can use then its going to be easier for cyclists to avoid these roads and hence avoid a large part of the problem.

I think this is on here somewhere, but this, also from a working lorry driver who is a cyclist as well, is worth spreading around the web.

Diagrams of HGV/LGV/lorry blind-spots

Truck companies are trying to improve this by installing those convex mirrors, and even some side object detectors.

Let's be clear - the push to install so-called 'blind-spot mirrors' has NOT come from the haulage industry - it came from the European Parliament. In fact, some voices in the haulage industry complained that the cost of the mirrors was an unnecessary imposition.

http://www.movingtargetzine.com/article/lcc-thinks-that-uk-govt-will-miss-deadline-for-fitting-blind-spot-mirrors-to-lgvhgvlorries

The side-detectors - theses were developed at Cemex, but only after one of their lorries killed a cyclist, the mother of the cyclist then bought shares in the company, and brow-beat the board at a share-holder's meeting. So, sure, the haulage industry has responded, but only after considerable pressure (ie calling for a day-time HGV ban)* was put upon them by families of victims, cyclists groups.

http://www.movingtargetzine.com/article/lorry-company-cemex-urges-others-to-look-daley-attacks-cyclists

*Dublin has a peak-time ban of 5 wheelers - maybe that's why the Irish economy has collapsed, eh?

@JDB - bit of a yes/no post^

I saw a car mounted on the concrete divide on Southwark bridge road the other day literally with the underside on top of the barrier with no wheels touching the ground.

There are some really shit drivers in London.

Unfortunately loads of people share the same rat run to work with cars.
Safer cycling is to do with an attitude to not getting yourself hurt and putting your self in harms way... you do not need a flag or be able to hear to do this.

I have recently changed my commute from down kingsland road to the dedicated cycle way through de beauvoir road... it is 170% safer, it is about 108% quicker, 105% longer and about 180% nicer. As a cyclist you can avoid the peak times really easily.

There is a fair bit of hypocrisy in peoples responses to what he has said... All these people saying that wearing headphones makes no difference to the situation, read any of the dumb pedestrian posts on here, the number one gripe is idiot pedestrian wandering out into the middle of the road on their phones or listening to music through headphones. If its hard for a cyclist to react in time in these sort of situations its going to be even harder for someone in a 20t truck. Not commenting on this case, as I don't know all the facts, but to bitch and moan about the behaviour from pedestrian in one thread and then say its fine for cyclists in another is hypocritical.

This is a lazy, lazy argument, which you ought to be ashamed of. Identify the posters in this thread who have complained about 'idiot pedestrians' or delete this section. I have NEVER posted or blogged about 'dumb peds'. So please do not suggest or insinuate that I have.

BB - JDB is referring to other posts on other threads and yes there is a lot of bitching about iPodestrians around here. "Here" meaning the forum and not "here" meaning this thread and you.

BB - JDB is referring to other posts on other threads and yes there is a lot of bitching about iPodestrians around here. "Here" meaning the forum and not "here" meaning this thread and you.

Sorry, he clearly states that there is hypocrisy in people's responses in this thread. So that argument does not fly, nor should you be explaining or exculpating him.

There may be posters elsewhere in this thread who are hypocrites, but it is up to him to identify them.

I bitterly resent, especially as someone who has been posting on here for longer than most & has always sought to point out that peds have right of way over cyclists, and not the other way round, being associated with such sentiments.

Sorry, he clearly states that there is hypocrisy in people's responses in this thread. So that argument does not fly, nor should you be explaining or exculpating him.

There may be posters elsewhere in this thread who are hypocrites, but it is up to him to identify them.

I bitterly resent, especially as someone who has been posting on here for longer than most & has always sought to point out that peds have right of way over cyclists, and not the other way round, being associated with such sentiments.

I appreciate that these incidents are of particular interest to you. Your history and work on cycling issues in London is without question.

But for the record your length of posting, post count and forum "seniority" has does not add strength to your argument. I disagree with your interpretation of JDB's post and was merely pointing out that there was the potential for misinterpretation. Call off the witch hunt BB.

I think this is on here somewhere, but this, also from a working lorry driver who is a cyclist as well, is worth spreading around the web.

Diagrams of HGV/LGV/lorry blind-spots

This is VERY useful but terminology has been confusing me:

What exactly does "undertake" and "overtake" and "nearside" mean? I think to undertake is to pass on the left, and thus overtake must mean to pass on the right?

I've only ever been a driver in the States, so things are strange enough here as it is, but to add to it, I was only ever taught the phrases "pass on the left" and "pass on the right", with it obviously being swapped over here.

Thanks for the diagram repost, Bill, I knew already not to pass on the left when I don't know how long the light has been red, and to never pass on the left if there is a chance they could be turning left, and to always watch to see if they look like they're going to turn at all, but now I will be more careful even when I know the light has just turned red, to make sure I get in front and to make sure the driver has seen me.

I know it sounds dorky, but seriously folks, Arrive Alive. I think we can steal that phrase and put it into practice for us, as well.

I apologise in advance for the following sweeping generalisations: HGV's especially buses/coaches & tipper/skip trucks seem to be driven with speed in excess of what is reasonable for the given road conditions, aggressively and with scant regard for other road users - there are however exceptions/exceptional drivers who I express my gratitude daily for showing consideration in their driving.

But any sane/rational cyclist should steer well away from HGV's and do everything possible to be as visible as possible.

Agree that in an ideal world we should have Copenhagen style cycle lanes, etc, but in the current/forthcoming world of financial austerity, it's not going to happen, so we have to work with the road conditions we have....

+1 for Arriving Alive

I have recently changed my commute from down kingsland road to the dedicated cycle way through de beauvoir road... it is 170% safer, it is about 108% quicker, 105% longer and about 180% nicer. As a cyclist you can avoid the peak times really easily.

I'm interested to see what my forthcoming commute will bring as I am traveling south, starting south anyway, at peak hours, and back again the opposite way at the next peak time. Common sense tells me that there will be less traffic going in my directions but we'll see how that actually pans out.

The ped who is surprised to see you is a ped in their little ped bubble, thinking that because they are going so much more slowly than any other road user they can just nod off into fantasy land of grocery lists and what their boss said to them today and that hot person they just passed and that they're tired and they can't wait for the weekend and... I used to be that kind of ped.

I appreciate that these incidents are of particular interest to you. Your history and work on cycling issues in London is without question.

But for the record your length of posting, post count and forum "seniority" has does not add strength to your argument. I disagree with your interpretation of JDB's post and was merely pointing out that there was the potential for misinterpretation. Call off the witch hunt BB.

My post count does, if the what is in question is whether or not my posts on this forum have been hypocritical.

I am not hunting witches, I am just fed up with reading weakly thought out and badly worded posts on this topic.

Welcome to the internetz.

Murphy's post highlights why bike lanes are in fact a hindrance rather than a help as they create a your space / my space mentality and are misinterpreted. Personally I am at a loss as to what they achieve other than wasting money.

Very good point.

The tipper drivers opinion is quite important here- it shows that cyclists are viewed as an impediment to be got past.

This too.
Even if a cyclist is moving, on average, faster than the motorised traffic. They must be passed.

Arrive Alive.

That's an album by long forgotten prog-rockers Pallas, isn't it. In the UK, under-taking is passing on the left, on a 2-way road.

Even if a cyclist is moving, on average, faster than the motorised traffic. They must be passed AT ALL COSTS, regardless of risk.

Fixed.