2010-02-21 - Pedestrian Down/Fatality - Lidlington Place/Eversholt Street, NW1

My thoughts to the woman's family and the cyclist.

How very sad.

I am not disputing your interpretation of reality, but I am disputing justice. The below is perhaps an extreme view, not my exact thoughts.

I'll use drink driving as an example. To some extent I do not believe that drink drivers should be punished for killing someone. I'll explain. When you get in a car drunk you are taking a massive risk with your life and the lives of other people. For that you should be punished severely. I am slightly unsure that the punishment should be much more serious because when you lost control and spun across the opposite lane you took out another car and killed someone, compared to if you had got lucky and hit no-one. In either case your actions could have easily killed someone and your punishment should be on that basis, not whether you were lucky or unlucky.

With RLJ (which we do not know was a factor in this case) I have no problem... in many cases it is very safe to RLJ. But to some extent if you RLJ and hit someone you should be punished for something like assault with a deadly wepon. If you are exceptionally unlucky and kill someone then that is just bad luck. If you cause no harm that is good luck. Luck should not come effect the punishment, the punishment should be based on the outcome that is perfectly feasible.

In practice it'd be hard to make work.

What a load of bullshit. You take a risk (RLJ or Drunk Driving) expect to deal with the consequences.

Why has this already descended into a brakeless, RLJ debate? There is NO information regarding the incident other than the sad consequences. I suggest you all remain silent with your judgements.

RIP

+1 - there's enough people ready to brand us all as fuckwits as it is.

Pretty awful. I don't need a fatality to inform my opinions on RLJ & brakeless riding so not terribly interested in that aspect. Put the popcorn away fellas.

Pedestrians should wear helmets.

Pedestrians should wear helmets.

It's the brakeless pedestrians that are the problem.

You take a chance with other people's safety and to a large extent the punishment should relate to what could have happened by your decision to take chances, not what actually happpened. The flip side is that if you do something very slightly wrong, but due to a bizarre turn of events the outcome is very bad your punishmment should be weightd towards the fact that what ou did was only slightly wrong.
Right, hence fairly steep fines for running lights, driving recklessly, etc even if no accident occurred. Generally the specific circumstances are considered at sentencing (which is why mandatory minimum sentences suck but that's another topic). In skiing way off piste, you need to consider consequences at all times: where you are, where you're heading, what if that slope slides, what will happen, what will you do to mitigate or eliminate the risk while still getting out there getting it done. Thinking about consequences usually stops me jumping reds.

The punishment is set by what you did, not by the results of what you did. Hence the media trumpet "driver kills family and gets off with 6 points".
A really cnutish piece of road behaviour could have very minor consequences and a very minor infringment of the rules could wipe out a bus stop full of nuns.
Punishment, in terms of road behaviour, is dictated by the action, not the result.

As for this case: lets wait for some facts before shooting each other.

http://www.lfgss.com/thread39852.html

Very sad, RIP to the lady indeed, happened to one of the Dublin couriers when they were in Japan for the CMWC, broke a red light and hit a ped, broke a tooth or something, no major damage done but he's locked up in a Japanese prison facing a lenghty sentence as we speak! Makes you think it's worth being a bit more careful eh!

Oh... and hello all, it's been a while!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8577612.stm

**Cyclist arrest after Camden tourist death **

A 27-year-old cyclist has been arrested after the death of a tourist who was knocked down by a pedal bike in London.
Scotland Yard said the man was arrested on suspicion of involuntary manslaughter and bailed.
Marian Anderson, 56, from Denmark, was hit while crossing a road in Camden on 21 February. She died in hospital from head injuries on 1 March.
Police said she was with her daughter, who is in her mid-20s, at the time. The cyclist involved stopped at the scene.
The incident happened in Lidlington Place, at the junction with Eversholt Street.
Ms Anderson was taken by ambulance to University College Hospital before being moved to the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery in London, where she later died.
The man was arrested on Friday after attending a police station in central London, Metropolitan Police officers said.
The arrest was on suspicion of involuntary manslaughter by recklessness and negligence.
He was bailed until a date in May pending further inquiries.

Very sad, RIP.
And I agree, please try to refrain from speculation on what happened/who was at fault, as there is really no information yet.

feel sorry for both the victims family and the cyclist. All must feel horrible.

I've had a few near misses with pedestrians over the years, some my fault some, some the ped and some a mix of the two. You don't think it would end up with someone dying tho really. so sad.