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He "pays taxes and everything"?
Fantastic.
Did he blame "the immigrants" for the unemployment issues in the UK?
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Is is illegal everywhere for motor bikes to stop at the ASL? Or is it more like depends on whe you are like motor bike seeing allowed to use the bus lanes in some boroughs? Anyway, I was cycling alongside a police car, I think they might be armed police as they were in those funny blue uniform, they stopped right at the ASL knowingly and very delibraetely on Peckham Road:; they first stopped at the normal line then slowly moved themselves forward. As I was just about to knock on their window and ask them if they know they have just broken the law, the flipping red light turned green... :-(
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Hmm. This is news to me: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2011/aug/24/safety-red-lights-cyclists
'An ASZ is made up of two stop lines – the first at the entry to the box, and the second further forward by the lights. When the lights are red, approaching motorists are required to stop at the first line (and are not allowed to enter the box). Cyclists may enter the box when the lights are red, but strictly speaking must do so from the "feeder" cycle lane which should accompany every ASZ. As the feeder lane is normally on the left, cyclists abiding by this rule will often have to undertake stationary traffic, a move which is discouraged.
Breaking the rules on ASZs is an offence, and you can be given a fixed penalty. For cyclists the maximum fixed penalty is £30, whereas a motorist can be fined £60 and given three points on their licence. Alternatively both cyclists and motorists can be prosecuted, in which case the penalties can be significantly more severe, especially if someone is injured.
Although it's an offence for a motorist to enter the ASZ at a red light, if they were already in the box when the light went red, it's not an offence to stop there – in fact the law requires them to do so. This makes enforcement more difficult, as the police actually have to see the car enter the box in order to know whether an offence has been committed.' -
I am sure it's been discussed many times before!
The City of London force used to enforce ASL’s (as well as other traffic offenses by vehicle users). This was stated at a road safety forum the City force used to run (specifically inviting cyclists).
Not sure if they (police) or the City of London still hold these regular forums – they were pretty useful in engaging cyclists with borough officers – and not just those from the local cycling group.
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Hmm. This is news to me: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2011/aug/24/safety-red-lights-cyclists
'An ASZ is made up of two stop lines – the first at the entry to the box, and the second further forward by the lights. When the lights are red, approaching motorists are required to stop at the first line (and are not allowed to enter the box). Cyclists may enter the box when the lights are red, but strictly speaking must do so from the "feeder" cycle lane which should accompany every ASZ. As the feeder lane is normally on the left, cyclists abiding by this rule will often have to undertake stationary traffic, a move which is discouraged.
Breaking the rules on ASZs is an offence, and you can be given a fixed penalty. For cyclists the maximum fixed penalty is £30, whereas a motorist can be fined £60 and given three points on their licence. Alternatively both cyclists and motorists can be prosecuted, in which case the penalties can be significantly more severe, especially if someone is injured.
Although it's an offence for a motorist to enter the ASZ at a red light, if they were already in the box when the light went red, it's not an offence to stop there – in fact the law requires them to do so. This makes enforcement more difficult, as the police actually have to see the car enter the box in order to know whether an offence has been committed.'It's important stuff, Alex, and worth bearing in mind when cyclists complain about cars 'blocking the ASL', or that the police don't enforce them.
There are numerous complications arising from this nonsense.
Any advanced stop box without a feeder lane and with an unbroken advanced stop line can technically not be entered by any cyclist when the lights are red. A stop line means 'stop' and both stop lines before and after the box have exactly the same status. The only possible difference is that one of them may be broken and permit cycle entry at that point. There are still many ASLs with unbroken stop lines around London, as quite a lot of people installing them used not to understand this. I think the situation has now improved (lots were retro-fitted with at least short broken lines), but there's still a long way to go.
Any advanced stop box without a feeder lane, but with a broken stop line, can lawfully be entered by motorcyclists , too, as they would not have to cross any part of the stop line at the point where said line is broken. The space between the lines has no special legal status, bike symbols notwithstanding. There are loads of 'ASLs' with just broken lines and no feeder lanes around London.
As we all know, these lines are routinely ignored by all kinds of road users. They simply don't work. One of the main reasons why they don't work is the presence, in the UK, of primary and secondary signal heads. If you look closely, most traffic lights come in threes, although there are some exceptions. There are usually two adjacent to the stopline (which one, I hear you ask, at ASLs--we'll get to that in a moment) and one further ahead of the stop line, often on the other side of the junction. One reason for poor stop line discipline by cyclists, which is one of the reasons why ASLs were introduced here (although the model comes from the Continent), is undoubtedly the presence at most junctions of the secondary signal head, which allows riders to creep forward of the stop line and still be able to observe the signal state. Short of people actually obeying traffic legislation (shock horror), stop line discipline would be much more easily improved by removing secondary signal heads everywhere, but they are required by law. One reason for poor advanced stop line discipline by motorists is without a doubt that the primary signal heads are located next to the second, and not the advanced, stop line. I have long thought that it would be better (although I wouldn't want to see the fundamentally flawed idea of ASLs evolve any further) and make more sense to locate the primary signals next to the advanced stop line and the secondary signal head next to the second stop line, although of course the provision of the secondary signal head is not conceived in this way (it is explicitly meant to be located away from the main stop line to improve the visibility of the signals, e.g. from different angles).
The article above states correctly that, as it is perfectly permissible for drivers of motor vehicles to stop in the space between the two lines under certain circumstances, the facilities are hard to enforce as far as motor vehicle encroachment is concerned. While this is true, it is also the case that the signals govern both stop lines, the advanced as well as the second (main) stop line. (That's why you have to stop at the advanced stop line at all--stop lines without signals governing them are very rare in this country--very widespread in the US, for instance.) Therefore, technically every cyclist who crosses the unbroken part of the advanced stop line would have to be nicked, as well (and drivers of motor vehicles could justifiably complain about it), as crossing the stop line when the signals are red is effectively the offence of red-light jumping. So, every time you come to an advanced stop line and cross into the box across the advanced stop line, you are technically jumping the red light (although I believe that there exists a different offence and penalty for that, not very up on that stuff, though).
The whole thing is completely absurd.
Of course, all of the above is really nit-picking, but it further shows up how illogical these facilities are, and how misconceived.
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Yes it has!!
I mean the rule about cyclists having to use the feeder lane. I think Oliver knows the details. In fact I think he set them to music and was quite a hit on YouTube.
I use Vimeo like every successful independent film-maker who has an ounce of self-respect.
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Feel free to forward it--I'm afraid I don't currently have time to read the SC list. Too much traffic. :)
From a quick glance, though, the debate there seems to be about whether motorcyclists are allowed to enter via feeder lanes. If it's a mandatory cycle lane, then no, if advisory, then yes (however, ASL lead-in lanes should always be mandatory for that reason, among others, e.g. preventing them from being blocked--absurdly enough, it is that requirement which mainly causes them to often be left out, as it would often require engineers to reduce the number of stacking lanes by one).
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^ Funny you say that. I have cycle-trained some cabbies who said they give people a wide berth on the hire bikes. Perhaps wobble a little more;)
Mayer 'I wobble deliberately' Hillman
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Does anyone else find that drivers, particularly taxi drivers, treat you far worse if you're on a Boris bike. Possibly it's due to my lower speed when riding one of these but I find drivers tend to be far less patient and try and squeeze by.
I think its the lower speed if I ride with the GF (slowly) I always feel drivers are way worse than when I cycle alone
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Was it a Saxo?
please please please please
Saxo - the marque of a cunt.
handtightenonly
ExTra
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adroit
MrDrem
Oliver Schick
marcom
aggi
skydancer
C.B.
rhowe
O'Shane-
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Please report dangerous drivers to the police - Roadsafe. Report to plod, not just whinge here.
Posted by
@dancing james
Just got in to an 'interesting' conversation with a guy on a moped at an ASL at Elephant & Castle roundabout who assured me that his motorised bike was in fact a bicycle and that I was wrong to tick him off for being in the box. He had also just cut the cyclist in front of me up twice.
He then proceeded to tell me he 'pays taxes and everything'.
Plonker.