All the books you've never read

People reading Discworld 'novels' are enjoying them. That doesn't make it right.

Better than staring at a wall while thoughts of death flit playfully across the waste land of your imagination.

Better than staring at a wall while thoughts of death flit playfully across the waste land of your imagination.

At least there's dignity in that.

Dignity schmignity.

/drains bottle

I had an argument in the pub about Harry Potter the other day that reminded me of this thread. If you can get a kid, or an adult for that matter, reading for pleasure, then they are further ahead than the posers who, when asked which books they like, list off the same fashionable, 'literary', sub-undergraduate authors with cool covers as all their mates that they never actually read but which they think that having on their shelves will make art-school girls want to do them.

At least the people reading harry potter books are enjoying them.

I'm not sure I agree. Dan Brown readers are clearly an exception. Not all reading is good.

Your argument hardly differs from stating that "even if people read the Daily Mail every day, that is far more desirable than someone who purchases [insert intelligentzia 'zine here] just to attract a mate but yet never opens it and couldn't comprehend it".

Surely damage is done to the ones who read the Daily Mail, whilst no damage save for embarrassment befalls those who haven't read something worth reading? The smart girl will see through the dumb boy, but who is helping the swarm of buffoons who actually think that Dan Brown has a point? Care in the community should start by not encouraging this type of thing. The dumbing down isn't worth it you know, there's a point at which "reading at any cost" isn't actually a good thing.

Nope - reading novels, is what I said. It's not really the same as reading newspapers. What you want kids to get from reading at a young age is the pure joy of being immersed in a story, a narrative. The 'quality' of a story, for kids, anyway, is in many ways determined purely by how enjoyable it is. Reading for pleasure, as a child, interestingly, is apparently the single biggest indicator of social mobility. I read that in the Guardian ;-)

Better than staring at a wall while thoughts of death flit playfully across the waste land of your imagination.

Knocking my hobby again are you?

At least there's dignity in that.

not when you've pissed your pants as well

Knocking my hobby again are you?

It's nice to have a past-time.

Nope - reading novels, is what I said. It's not really the same as reading newspapers. What you want kids to get from reading at a young age is the pure joy of being immersed in a story, a narrative. The 'quality' of a story, for kids, anyway, is in many ways determined purely by how enjoyable it is. Reading for pleasure, as a child, interestingly, is apparently the single biggest indicator of social mobility. I read that in the Guardian ;-)

Certainly I trace my rise through the social ranks back to the hours I spent as a child reading for pleasure.
And what of those who only read fiction and never or rarely dirty their hands with, say, current affairs, politics, science or journalism? To know all the works of Trollope but never to have experienced Martha Gellhorn?
The reason I read books as a child was that I had a mother who read a lot, recognised the same liking in me and took me to the local library every fortnight with our dog-eared cards to restock. It would be hard to say what my mother would have been like had she not read but evidence of the civilising influence of literature was not written all over her face or the back of her hand. Nor did it lend a rosy hue to her angry tirades and insane dictats or moderate her arbitrary cruelty. And she didn't just like popular fiction either; it wasn't down to the wrong books.
Probably the significant part of that story is that we went to a *local library; free, reasonably well stocked and open to all.* It will be all well and good a child nowadays developing a love of books having read Harry Potter if their parents cannot afford to buy any and their local library has closed down.

I second that. I loved my local library when I was little.

YouTube- Manic Street Preachers - A Design For Life (With Lyrics)

I don't like this song, but the lyric fits (for about the first couple of lines).

Certainly I trace my rise through the social ranks back to the hours I spent as a child reading for pleasure.
And what of those who only read fiction and never or rarely dirty their hands with, say, current affairs, politics, science or journalism? To know all the works of Trollope but never to have experienced Martha Gellhorn?
The reason I read books as a child was that I had a mother who read a lot, recognised the same liking in me and took me to the local library every fortnight with our dog-eared cards to restock. It would be hard to say what my mother would have been like had she not read but evidence of the civilising influence of literature was not written all over her face or the back of her hand. Nor did it lend a rosy hue to her angry tirades and insane dictats or moderate her arbitrary cruelty. And she didn't just like popular fiction either; it wasn't down to the wrong books.
Probably the significant part of that story is that we went to a *local library; free, reasonably well stocked and open to all.* It will be all well and good a child nowadays developing a love of books having read Harry Potter if their parents cannot afford to buy any and their local library has closed down.

I don't think there's much wrong with only reading fiction, personally.

Btw, I don't believe in a 'civilising influence' of great literature - I don't think people who read books are better people than those who don't - or anything like that. What I was trying to say though is that stories and narratives are part of being human - you can't live on facts alone - but you can get them from films, or Eastenders, or Harry Potter. A notion of 'good books' that separates them off from this most basic function, while they might fulfill myriad others, is myopic.

You are absolutely right about the libraries :(

You are absolutely right about everything, as usual :(

Well, thanks.

I deeply disagree with you about the only reading fiction thing though; if there is 'pure joy' (and I disagree with you about the existence of that too) in reading a story I think that quality can equally exist in non fiction books; though, as far as narrative goes - and maybe this is your point - the two overlap greatly. I think it is surely possible to spend your life reading fiction and still remain uninformed and naive in a way which I don't think is possible if you mix in some history and politics and so on. But then I am not sure where that gets you either; in fact I have no idea what I am talking about. Story/narrative of my life that.

Don't these 'posers' who buy books just to have them on their shelves, and who never actually read them, run the risk of coming a mighty cropper if they're asked - perhaps over coffee, or in some other precursor to coitus - by the art school girls they want to be done by, about said books? Surely it's easier and less nerve-racking to take some time out from Grand Theft Auto to plough through a few choice titles, some Auster probably, Murakami why not, before installing them on the shelf next to the condom pot and the bottle of amyl nitrate? My suspicion is that most people who buy books to look cool will at least try to read them, so whilst their intentions may be suspect, the consequences of the purchase, insofar as they might include flicking on a few fairy lights of inspiration in the reader, will be no worse than, and may probably be better than, the consequences of purchasing a Harry Potter for all the 'right' reasons.

In that case I'd recommend looking at some Pre-Socratic philosophy first, i.e. study a bit of Thales, Anaximander, Heraclitus, and Parmenides (not a lot to read, as we only have fragments) to set the context for Plato. Then don't read The Republic in isolation, as that makes it much more difficult, but together with some other dialogues, including the Parmenides, the Theaetetus, and the Sophist. These are all a bit of a handful, but being works of utter genius more than reward the work that you have to put in. NB The Republic isn't Plato's last word on a lot of things and a lot of things that occur in it are picked up again in other dialogues.

After I finish the Chronicles of Conan maybe.

"condom pot"? Really? A pot?
Mm

Don't these 'posers' who buy books just to have them on their shelves, and who never actually read them, run the risk of coming a mighty cropper if they're asked - perhaps over coffee, or in some other precursor to coitus - by the art school girls they want to be done by, about said books? Surely it's easier and less nerve-racking to take some time out from Grand Theft Auto to plough through a few choice titles, some Auster probably, Murakami why not, before installing them on the shelf next to the condom pot and the bottle of amyl nitrate? My suspicion is that most people who buy books to look cool will at least try to read them, so whilst their intentions may be suspect, the consequences of the purchase, insofar as they might include flicking on a few fairy lights of inspiration in the reader, will be no worse than, and may probably be better than, the consequences of purchasing a Harry Potter for all the 'right' reasons.

What you do is be honest and admit that you have never read the actual book.... sometimes you just gotta get round to reading stuff ... everything on my bookshelf I wanna read ... if I don't wanna read it ... it is usually a reference book which isn't for reading.

Certainly I trace my rise through the social ranks back to the hours I spent as a child reading for pleasure.

Me too.

The reason I read books as a child was that I had a mother who read a lot, recognised the same liking in me and took me to the local library every fortnight with our dog-eared cards to restock.

One or other of us takes Tynan to the library fortnightly - stock up on 7 new titles, and enjoy the storytelling/singing session.

It would be hard to say what my mother would have been like had she not read but evidence of the civilising influence of literature was not written all over her face or the back of her hand. Nor did it lend a rosy hue to her angry tirades and insane dictats or moderate her arbitrary cruelty.

I'm working hard on adjusting my lack of civility, my anger, my control freakery, and my abusive personality.

Probably the significant part of that story is that we went to a *local library; free, reasonably well stocked and open to all.*

Support your local library. The more people who use them, the harder it is for the state to close them down. Out of interest, my son's nursery is in the buliding that was formerly our most local library, but thankfully Islington had a large number of libraries to start with. This doesn't stop the remainder staying at the top of the local authority's easy target/soft touch budgetary hit list :(

Support the NHS. The more people who use it…

^Wouldn't it have been easier just to say I am right about everything as usual? Can't we make that next year's +1?

+Will.

She's a very clever bloke, that Plurabelle.

My own reading fail...sorry P...handset died shortly after that so I missed rest of this last night.

I had an argument in the pub about Harry Potter the other day that reminded me of this thread. If you can get a kid, or an adult for that matter, reading for pleasure, then they are further ahead than the posers who, when asked which books they like, list off the same fashionable, 'literary', sub-undergraduate authors with cool covers as all their mates that they never actually read but which they think that having on their shelves will make art-school girls want to do them.

At least the people reading harry potter books are enjoying them.

What are sub-undergraduate authors? Or 'literary' novels? And the high or lowbrow content of a book (if we are attaching value judgements) has little to do with its cover.

I think everyone should be reading more, I can't disagree there. And if you want something amazing and bizarre to read, try some Kobo Abe - The Box Man is particularly ace.

What are sub-undergraduate authors? Or 'literary' novels? And the high or lowbrow content of a book (if we are attaching value judgements) has little to do with its cover.

I think everyone should be reading more, I can't disagree there. And if you want something amazing and bizarre to read, try some Kobo Abe - The Box Man is particularly ace.

Yup, seconded, it's great. I'm teaching him next term actually.

My own reading fail...sorry P...handset died shortly after that so I missed rest of this last night.

Nae borra, I'm used to it :-)