So let's talk locks and security

After the boring practical bit, this response got better and better. Clubs are shit anyway. Hugs not drugs.

Still can't bring myself to get a beater. But I don't go anywhere where my bike's not welcome either inside or very very close by.

Just been hearing this annoying story about a feller(a pal's father in law) who is a rather rareified gent. He rides his beloved Brompton (he is a folder nut, got loads of 'em) to a gymnasium. The gym' have asked him not to bring his (folded) Brompton in. WHAT'S THE FUCKING POINT OF A BROMPTON? Arseholes. Apparently they think it looks dirty or ugly or something, lowering the tone of a Nice Gym To Which People Drive Massive Cars, In Order To Get Fit. Then they changed tack and started telling him it's because of H&S fire risk blah fucking blah.

Oh, sorry, back to the flaming.

Happen to me when I was working in a pub, borrowed my missus' brompton because it was more convience than locking the bike outside, going in the massive pub (those wetherspoon rubbish), then go in the loading area, unlocked the back door then bring in the bike.

despite having a foldable brompton, they're telling me the same thing, not allowed, bring it into the back instead of the staffroom like my other bike, and cited health and safety.

A bit off topic but:

H&S just gets used as an excuse to be difficult, so be difficult back.
If anyone tells you you cannot bring your bike in somewhere because of Health and Safety reasons demand to see a copy of their Health and Safety policy and any and all relevant risk assessments for access and egress, fire safety etc. Most of these high horse soap box must be difficult types know nothing about H&S. I work in construction and active sites are a highly dangerous working environment as you can imagine. There is pretty much every single kind of potential hazard from tripping over to fire to falling to impaling to dust to chemicals to falling materials to power tools etc etc. But the job must go on to meet the deadline, AND be as safe as possible. Trust me, just about any H&S issue can be resolved, gotten around or avoided just by thinking about how to solve it based on addressing the risks, implenting procedures and good management.

I don't know this for certain but, seeing as it is safety related, and you are a member / employee then you would have to have a right be given a copy of such documentation for your own information, should you ask for it. There is no point in having safety documentation if no-one can have access to it.

A quick google to the HSE's website would no doubt confirm this.

Tested Locks article from Cycling Plus, bit out of date but gives an idea of how quickly/easily many locks can be breached:

http://a1.s3.quickshareit.com/locktestpt17ef52.pdf

http://a1.s3.quickshareit.com/locktestpt2aad4a.pdf

This one shows how bottle jacks are used:

Lock it or lose it: http://quickrelease.tv/?p=327

"There are two distinct aspects to protecting your bike: Documentation, and proper locking technique, and both are essential to proper bicycle security."

http://www.bicyclelaw.com/p.cfm/bicycle-safety/about-bike-theft

My Work Bike Locking Set-up:

Fahg Mini (locks frame and back wheel), Xena Disc alarm, Evo mini (locks front wheel), ball bearings glued into stem bolts and saddle cradle bolt, Kryptoflex Cable 2.5' and Zefal Lockn'Roll Seatpost QR to protect saddle and seatpost.

Here in list form (whatever else?)

Non-list form? ;P

Heresy - clearly.

Is number 5 definitely true?

i am confused by this thread.

just get a kryptonite fah mini or two and be content your bike is locked up to the best of your ability, and accept it will get stolen, insure it, and move on. and go to bed?

I am not convinced that that lock is foolproof, but essentially, if you lock your bike in public there is the risk it will get knicked.
So, as you say, good lock, lock intelligently and insure. All you can do.

It is bike, FFS. When I am in the pub I would much rather enjoy the fine ales and cider than sitting there with a tight anus worrying about my bike.

Sorry if that is stating the obvious.

Is number 5 definitely true?

As far as has been recounted on the Stolen Bikes thread, and the Locks That Work thread,
it seems that Fahg Minis have not been broken to steal a bike, if either locked correctly, or for a reasonable amount of time.

One guy blatantly lied, and said that his mates and his bikes were locked with Fahg Minis, but I pointed out he lied, and he never resurfaced.
Others used Fahg Minis, but didn't secure it to an immovable object, Others left theirs unattended for enough time that any lock in the world would be broken.

So, no. As far as I have seen, so far, no Fahg Mini (or any other of the top locks actually), have been broken if normal sensible guidlines were followed.
Those guidelines being:

• Lock to an immovable object
  
• Try not to leave gaps within the lock shackle
  
• Keep weakest part of lock on opposite side of the bike, and the strongest side facing public access
  
• Leave in a well traversed public area
  
• Do not leave overnight in public
  
• Leave bike locked where covered by CCTV, if at all possible
  

Silly thread begets flaming and talk of food, both of which are fine by me.

I am, however, offended by your use of the term:

internet fora

Grammatical accuracy aside, this is a pile of bendy cock.

Peri-peri prawns anyone? These look fucking nice!

Oh my god! Prawn Siew Mai!!!

There should be a dim sum/yum cha ride.

Balki, you're truly one of a kind.

2nd post

Seriously. People are trying to help. You are not listening.

You have one mouth and two ears - you should use them in that proportion.

if everyone did that, all conversation would approach zero.

Is number 5 definitely true?

Also, what about point 2 (sheldon method)? In what way is it not adequate?

As far as i know, the sheldon method is all good. Yes someone has had their bike damaged by a thief that thought the bike was prone locked this way ... and presumably damaged the bike in frustration at the realisation that it was not in fact prone ... but just looked it.

SIIAMS

It is bike, FFS. When I am in the pub I would much rather enjoy the fine ales and cider than sitting there with a tight anus worrying about my bike.

massive +1

be sensible, but otherwise, get on with your life.

SSIIMS[t]

Balki, you're truly one of a kind.

Racist.

Also, what about point 2 (sheldon method)? In what way is it not adequate?

As far as i know, the sheldon method is all good. Yes someone has had their bike damaged by a thief that thought the bike was prone locked this way ... and presumably damaged the bike in frustration at the realisation that it was not in fact prone ... but just looked it.

Skully, I stated in the Locks That Work thread, that the Sheldon Locking Method would not suffice in areas of high level bike theft.

First of all, the bike, to the untrained eye (opportunist thieves), looks improperly secured. A very well secured normally is obvious, even from across the street, because the lock goes through at least a wheel AND a major part of the frame. Since the Sheldon Method does not secure the frame, then the vulverable part is the wheel. Rims cannot possibly be as strong of the solid steel section of a u-lock, especially a good u-lock.

To comprehensively defeat the Sheldon Method, all one needs to do is this:

1. Deflate the tyre
   
2. Use a sharpened bolt-cutter to cut through the rim (and maybe a couple spokes).
   
3. Use an extra sharp knife on the tyre, as the bolt-cutter may get stuck on rubber.
   
4. Leave behind mangled rear wheel and tyre, with an undisturbed lock.
   
   

Yes, I have appeared to give away advice to thieves. But this is not so. Any thief walking past a bike that they really want, and it is Sheldon Locked, will have the bike in a minute, if carrying a sharpened boltcutter at that time. All he would have to do is try it. It would work immediately. Yes, they will leave behind the rear wheel, but if they've stolen a Mercian or a Pinarello, then it would be worth it to them.

As I have said before, it is fine for provincial security, but not in major cities, or where there is high-level bike theft.

I have not wanted to go against Sheldon Brown's advice on anything, as he has been the true guru of cycling knowledge for many of us. But, I leave anyone to make their own mind's up, regarding Sheldon's advice, or mine.

Here is Edscoble's bike below, locked in the Sheldon Method. Simply cut the wheel, and if that were the only lock, then the bike, minus one wheel, would be yours.

And here is Edscoble's bike below, locked in the far more secure manner, by including part of the frame.

• Try not to leave gaps within the lock shackle
  
  
  

I still think Foxes google docs thing can provide a very valuable information resource, as long as enough people supply the data honestly. So we can get a true picture of which locks are more thief proof, with the proof to back it up

I understand nothing is fullproof, but some are better than others.

Aside but where you ever shown taught how to lock a bike? When you bought a lock were you shown how to make the bes use of it?

Sheldon appears to be suffering a little wishful thinking here.

Sheldon Brown method was discussed on FGG forum. Lead to this video. Apols if reeepost.
BikeTheft004.flv video by skidlikeakid - Photobucket

Sheldon Brown method was discussed on FGG forum. Lead to this video. Apols if reeepost.
BikeTheft004.flv video by skidlikeakid - Photobucket

there are problems attached to this link me thinks

oh, does this work? BikeTheft004.flv video by skidlikeakid - Photobucket

from this thread - "25 seconds" http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19395&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=sheldon+lock+hacksaw&start=30

lynx, I think what you are trying to do certainly has some merit.
However, the answers to some of your questions are already in the threads people have suggested to you.

Here in list form (whatever else?) are some answers that do not need to be looked for:

1. Sold Secure Gold cannot be trusted, as possible deference to large companies appears to exist.
   
2. The Sheldon bicycle locking method may not be adequate for major cities like London.
   
3. 16mm U-locks/Chains and thicker appear not to be cut by manually-powered boltcroppers.
   
4. Many thefts are due to incorrect locking procedures.
   
5. Bikes locked with Krytonite Fahg Mini have not been stolen if following normal guidelines.
   
6. OnGuard (Brute) locks appear to have an issue with amount of key cuttings issued.
   
7. Saddle security can be best affected by super-gluing a ballbearing into the nut.
   
8. Newest idea for bike security is motorcycle disc lock alarm, put through chainring (tested by Clefty).
   Excellent if bike is stored in communal halls, or on fire escape, or at work in bike sheds/stands.
   
   

Even if it hasn't, at least research, and innovation (on this forum)
has led to many coming on here to find out more. I feel that what you may want to ask, has already been answered, but not in the form that suits you.

Well we agree on point one, whilst point three we disagree on. The 16mm oxford d lock can be cropped with manual cropers as the lock bit between the D is not that solid. The lock alarm is only useful if you can here it IMO.

What I was looking for is something like foxes google thing or someone that actually testing the locks. Should have a chat to almax and see what I can arrange.

Skully, I stated in the Locks That Work thread, that the Sheldon Locking Method would not suffice in areas of high level bike theft.

First of all, the bike, to the untrained eye (opportunist thieves), looks improperly secured. A very well secured normally is obvious, even from across the street, because the lock goes through at least a wheel AND a major part of the frame. Since the Sheldon Method does not secure the frame, then the vulverable part is the wheel. Rims cannot possibly be as strong of the solid steel section of a u-lock, especially a good u-lock.

To comprehensively defeat the Sheldon Method, all one needs to do is this:

1. Deflate the tyre
   
2. Use a sharpened bolt-cutter to cut through the rim (and maybe a couple spokes).
   
3. Use an extra sharp knife on the tyre, as the bolt-cutter may get stuck on rubber.
   
4. Leave behind mangled rear wheel and tyre, with an undisturbed lock.
   
   

Yes, I have appeared to give away advice to thieves. But this is not so. Any thief walking past a bike that they really want, and it is Sheldon Locked, will have the bike in a minute, if carrying a sharpened boltcutter at that time. All he would have to do is try it. It would work immediately. Yes, they will leave behind the rear wheel, but if they've stolen a Mercian or a Pinarello, then it would be worth it to them.

As I have said before, it is fine for provincial security, but not in major cities, or where there is high-level bike theft.

No information that is not known to the thieves.

2 Krypto mini D's. Easy enough to carry around, plenty of locking options, just never leave a bike locked up where you cant see it or get to it within 30 seconds to check it. Never leave a bike worth more than £300 locked up outside for more than an hour. If you want to leave you bike outside a pub or club, ALMAX chain + 2 mini D's and remove everything from it that an allen key or adjustable spanner will allow. Then try getting into the club with your seatpost/saddle combo and your drops. you will net be let in and you'll have to cycle home to swap for your beater, which you don't mind getting nicked, keyed or kicked in, now you get into the party, but - the DJ whose set you wanted to see will have finished, all the drugs will be gone and all the pretty girls will have paired off with non bike riding people who smell better than you anyway... at least you have your bike.

i like this short-story

First of all, the bike, to the untrained eye (opportunist thieves), looks improperly secured. A very well secured normally is obvious, even from across the street, because the lock goes through at least a wheel AND a major part of the frame. Since the Sheldon Method does not secure the frame, then the vulverable part is the wheel. Rims cannot possibly be as strong of the solid steel section of a u-lock, especially a good u-lock.

To comprehensively defeat the Sheldon Method, all one needs to do is this:

1. Deflate the tyre
   
2. Use a sharpened bolt-cutter to cut through the rim (and maybe a couple spokes).
   
3. Use an extra sharp knife on the tyre, as the bolt-cutter may get stuck on rubber.
   
4. Leave behind mangled rear wheel and tyre, with an undisturbed lock.
   
   
   

Theft want to able to sell the bike, the last thing they want is to sell a bike without a back wheel, front wheel are easy to replace but back wheels less so.

Yes, I have appeared to give away advice to thieves

Don't assumed that thieves are stupid, that's the first mistake cyclists made when locking their bike.

Sheldon appears to be suffering a little wishful thinking here.

all he suffer is passing away too soon, i guarantee you that if he is still alive right now, he would change his method after listening to many people about bike theft.