Merino Clothing (base layers, etc)

Yep you're right @hoefla. I've not tried any of Howies latest merino which is why I was careful to note which of the Howies range I was writing about.

I have to be honest I've been pretty put off by both Howies and Finisterre baselayers. I think there is such thing as a cycling baselayer... although ski layers can work really well.

Past experience of Rapha's merino was awful. A pack off three, rotating, had all worn through under the arms and along the chest within two or three months. Could not return as I had lopped off the dog collars.

The materials on their mesh top look poor in comparison to the Brynje original mesh which is an 80/20 split to the good, very long in the body. Twelve months old and seeing a lot of use with only light bobbling mainly on cuffs and collars (no additional holes or loss of holes however you look at it).

^^ Yeah I know you made it clear. Also to be clear I am generally comparing Rapha mens range with Howies womens, although there are close mens equivalents (unlike Rapha). The lightweight stuff isn't new, it used to be called NBL Light or something like that. But their stocking is a bit gappy so some things just disappear off the website for ages.

IMO the lightweight fitted stuff is the only proper baselayer in the range, the rest is t-shirt cut and feel. Even though the long- and short-sleeved Classic are supposedly the same weight, they don't feel it, the long-sleeved is heavier and denser, the short-sleeved washes/wears into a really nice feel after a while (not much stretch but a thinner smoother feel). But not a baselayer.

Rapha is slightly lighter than the lightweight Howies, and has better "drape" and stretch (I think the two are related) but the Howies is softer. In the Rapha shop the new colours and cuts (eg. V-neck short-sleeved) feel different, maybe not as stretchy as the "classic" cream. Anyone got? I'd like to get the royal blue and maybe dark grey at some point.

How come you're put off @miro_o ? Is it just that they don't seem cycling specific? The lightweight Howies is certainly long enough and non-flappy. Finisterre is a bit short maybe.

I could talk about baselayers all night...

Could not return as I had lopped off the dog collars.

?!? did you hem them somehow? can't really see them holding together very well with no edging?

I stitched it back up : /
The holes had nothing to do with the mod.
I may have got a bad lot;

I have several of the Finisterre ones by now and find them easily long enough. They are a slightly baggy cut though. I like the older 100% merino ones slightly better than the more recent merino-plus-a-bit-of-something-else fabric

All of @hoefla's late night baselayer business correlates with my experience.

I'm put off because I don't feel like I can trust Howies stuff. I've had jumpers warp, fall apart and t-shirts that fit badly (like sodding GAP stuff). When you're buying online and it's nicebutpricey you only do this for so long. I think the quality is varied and it's not cut for my shape. Or people with arms.

Finisterre stuff has been OK but again not brilliant for cycling. I guess I'd rather be comfortable and smelling of awesome* for the post-ride beer than (try and) look norm/casual.

*not awesome

Uniqlo has been discussed before but Extra Fine 19,5 micron merino turtleneck seems like an excellent winter baselayer with the high collar.

to city, not for performance riding though..

Whoever mentioned HH baselayers a page or two back - prepare to stink. Once they start to smell - that's it. Those things are awful if you ever work up a sweat too - they stay wet and cold thereafter. I used to use them for skiing (before merino was a 'thing'), but would be freezing cold for the rest of the day if I ever got sweaty.

I honestly think (having owned plenty of both) that Icebreaker stuff is as good, if not better than Rapha. Cheaper too if you shop around. I've got IB baselayers; bought before I ever owned any Rapha which are still going strong - whilst the Rapha ones have all disintegrated or become so thin that they rip.

Also a shout for the PX merino baselayer I bought last year as an extra for skiing because it was cheap - pretty amazing value for money. Not a patch on Icebreaker or Rapah and fit is all over the place, but perfect for commuting and stuff like climbing/walking/skiing. Cannot comment of the provenance of the wool though - doubt it's from happy sheep.

Yep, my experience says ice breaker is the best, their lower weights being most suitable for cycling.

In reply to questions about merino gloves; I find that they hole to easily around the finger tips especially when cycling. Have bought some assos insulator gloves l1 which seem to be ok and keeping a pair of Arc'teryx gothic with my packable down jacket for off bike luxurues.

Thrifty light bulb lit up at the weekend, chopped the main body from an old top, cut it in half ( front and back), stitched the two longest sides together , left the hem and hemmed the open end.
Hay presto your very own neck gaiter (buff). It's a little shorter and tighter than the ones you buy, works none the less.

I'd agree about the rapha baselayers. Superb. The value of my merino v in cost per wear is ridiculous, even though you're paying an initial outlay. I also have the crew neck which has been a good underlayer when I've been skiing as well.

Anyone had any experience with the mons royale ski/snow stuff?

@dan - Interesting experience with HH baselayer. I've been wearing one on the bike and running (only when stupid cold) for 4 years now and it still doesn't smell. Maybe the newer stuff is a different tech? It's 'Lifa' tech or something...

Ok I'm about to pull the trigger on a Rapha short sleeve bundle. When you get the bundle discount and Sky survey discount it works out pretty reasonable.

I own a club jersey in XL which fits perfectly (a little loose but it's a club fit) I presume I'll take the same size in the baselayers?

The same with my Lifa. It's best for running or a short-hard ride.

I wash all baselayers after every ride. Do some people not?

I wear size L for the jerseys but M for baselayers. They are stretchy.

Cheers Sohi. I sent Rapha a mail there and they said exactly the same thing.

Responded in 10 minutes too, impressive.

Anyone had any experience with the mons royale ski/snow stuff?

Not wearing it, but seen it at a few tradeshows recently. Seems quite heavy but really good quality. The guy promoting said that the owner of the business used to be sponsored by icebreaker, but got bored of the design so started his own brand.

Mons royal - icebreaker for hipsters. Peleton cafe in spitalfields stock them (or used to. Haven't been in for a while).
Nice and pricey too.

I still heart devold from the voldemort site. Been running/wfh around the house in my baselayers all week!

Ice Breaker is excellent. I have two of their 260 weight merino hoodies for winter casual cycling and they are still perfect after 3 years. Even though they have switched their manufacturing the quality still seems good.

I have really old HH ski baselayers - they don't smell? Maybe it's just the new ones.

Also, cheap PX merino ones - they will distort but perfectly serviceable for on bike and other activities.

If you want to sweat, be cold and smell use the Nike Combat base layer things - mistake I wont repeat!

I've been using a Nike Pro Combat base layer for everything (running, riding, gym) and have no complaints? I mean, it's pretty basic but it's not bad.

This may be because I run super hot in the core, but there is no way I'd wear a merino base layer until it hits 5º or lower.

Really? How odd. I run hot too so am rarely wearing many layers but I found the Nike stuff to overheat me, I then I'd be soaked in sweat and then chill.. I do like the compression fit though. Is yours to dri fit?

I've been a fan of finisterre for a while, but recently they've been spending far too much time 'pushing their brand' by prattling on about 'cold water surf' and making artsy videos. Their 100% merino t-shirts/base layers of about 5 years ago were miles better than the 80/20 blend they do now. I had 4 of their 100% merino t-shirts which I wore in rotation for a solid 4 years or so before they finally gave up. Best Tees I ever had, could wear one for 7-10 days with no smell.

That said, I do like their current long sleeve merino blend baselayers, and I'm currently wearing a merino lined hoody which is ace.

I have one of those and it's the same for me. Doesn't smell at all (although it does get washed after every use). Do find that after running in it my arms and chest are very red though. Not sure if this is from the running or a reaction to the top although there is no itchiness.

Yeah I use them for track and some riding. They are quite hot though - I think that's due to them being more windproof than merino. Perfect for under a thin jersey at this time of year for Monday nights at HH.