This week's fixtures & results League II (winter 2009/2010)

;1032895']According to the tags there's no love between anybody in polo.

apart from the bad polo tags..

I still think the main point has failed to be appreciated:

1) Rik's ruling went against the stated rules of the league
2) I challenged that on the spot
3) The goal ref (Ali) agreed that according to the standing rule (cone height), it was a goal, but he deferred to Rik for final decision

It's no less fallible to allow the ref to respond however they choose and stops the players manipulating a game's result (not that I think anyone would).

Rik's spoken, so now we follow his path of action. This should be the precedent in my opinion.

The ref will always be in a dangerous position of power, opening up decisions to anyone else simply allows more room for error/manipulation, it does not make for a more honest/accurate game.

There is a reason that the ref's decision is final. Sport 101.

+1000.

This is sport, remember, and part of the spirit of sport is accepting the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune with equinamity.

matt, you're slipping on my loveometer now.

I still think the main point has failed to be appreciated:

1) Rik's ruling went against the stated rules of the league
2) I challenged that on the spot
3) The goal ref (Ali) agreed that according to the standing rule (cone height), it was a goal, but he deferred to Rik for final decision

wrong. he didnt make a call at all

It's no less fallible to allow the ref to respond however they choose and stops the players manipulating a game's result (not that I think anyone would).

What? I'm not sure I'm following Mr. Marshall. The point is, this only comes up when there is no debate amongst players. When the issue is not contentious or dangerous. It seems pretty simple that the ref's decision being final is only necessary when there is a decision that needs to be made.

The ref will always be in a dangerous position of power, opening up decisions to anyone else simply allows more room for error/manipulation, it does not make for a more honest/accurate game.

How can a player manipulate results negatively in Matt's position?

^^ first interesting fact in this thread all day!

wrong. he didnt make a call at all

Rik, I asked him if it was below the top of the cone, and he said yes. Let's wait for him to confirm or deny this.

I think we need lockett back to be ref.

I'm inclined to agree with mike, if all 6 players, or all league owners present at the game concur, then change the result.

I agree and desagrree with Mike, only the 6 players should have a say, no all the league [players present, they may be interested in count the goal or not

You'll also see that I said the majority of league players must deem the challenge to the call worthy enough to change it in the first place.

Saying the players present could have a vested interest in the outcome is also an argument for not having league players ref games.

;1032924']Saying the players present could have a vested interest in the outcome is also an argument for not having league players ref games.

That's my point, it's a ridiculous point. We're moving into the territory of having refs that never play polo. Then we'd have refs like dancing james.

this thread is sending me a bit mental, sorry.

That's my point, it's a ridiculous point. We're moving into the territory of having refs that never play polo. Then we'd have refs like dancing james.

Absolutely. I wouldn't change the way things are currently. This is why I feel that players present should have a say, it's their league as well.

In polo I trust.

If the ref calls 'no goal', it's not a goal, end of.

It's a fundamental of team sport, or any sport, that the ref's decision is final even if it's totally wrong. If you are unable to accept this, then, I am afraid that you are pretty much ruling yourself out of organised sport, at least any sport that I know.

key word being "sport"

easy to lose track of that shit eh?

this thread is sending me a bit mental, sorry.

no You're mental

Oh yeah, fixtures.

Apples have a few to get through.

Beards Friday Night, Mitch, then northgate?
Sparkle Motion are we on for saturday? What time? Where?
BAD Monday night? Mitch?

sorry can't do monday anymore

too much to read. Please explain conclusion of internet debate/catfight in one sentence.

In the 1988 Tour Robert Millar was away in a break with 2 other guys in the Pyrenees.

Near the end (last 3 km), Massimo Ghirotto was dropped, leaving Millar and Philipe Bouvatier to contest the stage win, with its attendant glory and rewards.

In the last 1km, a policeman directed Millar and Bouvatier the wrong way up the team car turn-off. By the time they realised their mistake, and turned round, Ghirotto went past and took the win.

It was a clear injustice, and certainly 'robbed' Millar or the other guy of a prestigious win, but if you look in the record books, you will see Ghirotto's name listed as the winner of the stage to Guzet-Neige.

In the 1988 Tour Robert Millar was away in a break with 2 other guys in the Pyrenees.

Near the end (last 3 km), Massimo Ghirotto was dropped, leaving Millar and Philipe Bouvatier to contest the stage win, with its attendant glory and rewards.

In the last 1km, a policeman directed Millar and Bouvatier the wrong way up the team car turn-off. By the time they realised their mistake, and turned round, Ghirotto went past and took the win.

It was a clear injustice, and certainly 'robbed' Millar or the other guy of a prestigious win, but if you look in the record books, you will see Ghirotto's name listed as the winner of the stage to Guzet-Neige.

Highlighted the important bit.

Anyway, these two situations are only similar in them being sports involving bikes as far as I can tell. I don't know the tour's (ICU?) rules, but if there was a rule that said "If a policeman points you the wrong way, you will be rewarded the time lost getting back on track", and then they weren't awarded the time, we'd be getting somewhere towards the same situation.

I'd like to make the point that by highlighting that, I was not saying what happened to malice was "a clear injustice," just trying to draw attention to Bill's own opinion on the matter. One would (I hope!) do what they could to prevent an injustice. My point being, we're not tour officials, and therefore cannot affect the results. However, we are, in a way, league officials

James is away for a bit but there is a window in his various auditions for 'x factor' and 'come dine with me' to receive some polo masterclasses and to play 3beards as well

what the following dates be cool for the following teams

wed 4th november [evening]
saturday 7th november [evening]

we can double up on those evenings

we need to play

Black Rebel BPC
Zombies
BAD
3beards

what days would each team prefer?

[things should be back to normal when James gets back - Pip will be doing his hair and sloshing olive oil over everyones sandwiches, I'll be leaning on my mallet wondering if 48 spokes are enough etc. etc]

Mike - saturday November 7th, book early and all that…

Sorry to everyone that's been waiting on Sparkle Motion games - we're getting back on track.

BAD vs Sparkle Motion - Wednesday, Newington, 20:00, sorted.

Black Rebel - Can you confirm the venue for the Sparkle Motion game on Wednesday? You would be doing us a huge favour if you could make Newington at about 19:00 seeing as we have BAD at 20:00 there.

Zombie Vs Sparkle Motion fixture on the League calendar should be an evening fixture - I have work until 17:00 at the earliest. NE court?

Beards - we are playing after Zombie on Saturday to the best of my knowledge? I assume both games at the same NE court?

Rotten Apples and Polo Fiasco - unless Pip is spectacularly available on Tuesday, Thursday or Friday then it looks like we're not going to be able to fit these games in before I go away again. It would be awesome if you could wait until the end of November because these are the two games that I really, really wanted to play (besides the west derbys). If you can't wait then I'm sure Pip and Wayne can find a sub. Thanks to everyone for being patient with us, it's appreciated.

coolio,

Wednesday
BAD vs Sparkles
BRBPC vs Sparkles

Saturday
Zombies vs Sparkles
Rotten Apples or Beards vs Sparkle Motion [beards haven't got back to us on their availablity]

When Pip surfaces I'll see if he's around on Thursday evening for other team games [either beards or apples depending on their availablity]

Cheers for your patience guys and gals - normal service will be resumed after James returns from AmericalLand

I put our game against SM in the calender more than a week ago at Mitch and now it's changed to Newington. We will be playing at Mitch, it's our home game so if you're not there it's a forfeit.

I still think the main point has failed to be appreciated:

1) Rik's ruling went against the stated rules of the league
2) I challenged that on the spot
3) The goal ref (Ali) agreed that according to the standing rule (cone height), it was a goal, but he deferred to Rik for final decision

@bill - rather than invoking general points about sports, do you have any reaction to the specifics of this case? (I want to make a general point too, but the general point needs to be able to deal effectively with specific issues, which I don't think you have.)

Let me add:

4) We were under severe time constraints due to lights and had no time to stop and discuss it.

@bill - rather than invoking general points about sports, do you have any reaction to the specifics of this case? (I want to make a general point too, but the general point needs to be able to deal effectively with specific issues, which I don't think you have.)

Let me add:

4) We were under severe time constraints due to lights and had no time to stop and discuss it.

The general point that relates to this case specifically, is that the ref's decision should be final! No discussion! The Beards have had decisions go against us that we thought were stone cold wrong, but we played on and didn't discuss them with refs because that's called sportmanship.

Not that we're necessarily the most sporting team in the league, though.

In the 1898 Tour Robert Millar, a good friend of mine, was away in a break with 2 other guys in the Pyrenees.

Near the end (last 3 km), Massimo Ghirotto was dropped, leaving Millar and Philipe Bouvatier to contest the stage win, with its attendant glory and rewards.

In the last 1km, a policeman directed Millar and Bouvatier the wrong way up the team car turn-off, I was there, I saw it. By the time they realised their mistake, and turned round, Ghirotto went past and took the win.

It was a clear injustice, and certainly 'robbed' Millar or the other guy of a prestigious win, but if you look in the record books, you will see Ghirotto's name listed as the winner of the stage to Guzet-Neige.

fixed

Mike - it'll be at Mitch…

what time can you do? we have to play Apples that evening and James gets out of work at 6.30 - are there lights at Mitch?

it's just getting a bit complicated trying to get all the games booked in when I've got cackloads of PM's flying around about fixtures