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@d.cooper, positioning and taking the lane aren't only for the brave, they are for any road user, comments like yours show the underlying fear of most cyclists interaction with traffic, we fear it, so we must seperate from it.
Cycling isn't only for the brave, and in making such comments you only continue to perpetuate the thinking that cycling isn't for everyone, no matter their age or ability..
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One of the key aspects of the success of cycle training is that it teaches skill, and that, crucially, most of these skills are what you might consider quite basic. They certainly don't take any special talent to learn and use successfully. People need 'bravery' where they lack skill.
It is, of course, perfectly possible to cycle really badly through 'bravery' and 'confidence'. While I've never seen him cycle, I've heard so many stories like this one that I can't help but conclude that the Mayor of London's skill level is very low and that he makes up for this by sheer obliviousness through the confidence that people will recognise him. (He refuses to take cycle training.)
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Yes, that's why we have such a high percentage of people currently cycle, from such a broad range of demographics....
When I stop at traffic lights in London rush hour, It's obvious the vast majority are adult males, fit enough to keep up with the speeding traffic. The roads reinforce that cycling isn't for everyone, not my comments.
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@d.cooper, we could go round in semantics, but if you keep saying the same thing over and over people will believe, and then it takes as much if not more effort to change that perception.
I don't subscribe to the belief that the roads aren't for everyone, they are. The sooner that we communicate that message to those who want to cycle, but don't, the better. You have to fight through the fear (misplaced in reality) of how dangerous it is to cycle in london/traffic, to get them onto the roads.
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One of the key things to understand is that, in international comparison, London has never been a 'cycling city'. The modal share of cycling here has always been much lower than in other European cities. This was in large part because of the very early development of public transport in London. By contrast, Copenhagen has only recently (2002) started building its urban railways.
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/dk/kobenhavn/kobenhavn.htm
London is, essentially, still a walking and public transport city.
Apart from this, there are of course many other reasons why people don't cycle apart from fear of road danger, e.g. rain, cold, avoidance of physical effort, having nowhere to store a bike at home or at work (one of the reasons why people use hire bikes), disability, social anxiety, London's long commuting distances, the intensely busy nature of the city environment, etc.
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I'd also suggest that the scale of London is a major differential from other European cities. I spent 5 weeks last summer going through europe, and there wasn't a single city that I couldn't walk across in a couple of hours. Berlin is about 10 miles across, compared to 18-20 for London. Also London is the only major city in the south. Again compare to Berlin, which has Lepzig and Dresden (relatively) nearby
Also, it felt like most people who drove in those cities also lived there, so they would experience it as peds/cyclists too. My overriding feeling with London drivers is that they only ever experience it from behind a windscreen. They get into their car outside of london, drive through, run to the office, maybe pop out for coffee, then drive out again. So they have no comprehension of what it is like for people who don't drive?
TL:DR, London is bigger, and has a massive catchment area.
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Other point in factor that I don't think many other European city embrace the "share the road" philosophy, I'm much more comfortable riding on the road in London on primary (when necessary) than doing such thing in other European cities (that also made it illegal to ride on the road if a bicycle path is presented).
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The scale is a factor, which I guess was why the godawful 'superhighways' were introduced. Copenhagen might be a good reference for long distance commuting, as they too are trying to encourage those from suburbs up to 22km away to cycle to work instead of take public transport with their take on 'superhighways', except they actually get it, and design them properly, so that people ride fast and mostly uninterrupted, with cool stuff like green-wave traffic lights.
True about the public transport dominance, but cycling can still play a big role in connecting journeys, like taking bikes on the overground, which is great.
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not wanting to sound xenophobic, but personally feel, elsewhere in europe and other parts of the world, there is a "might is right" philosophy, where the embedded thought is that bigger vehicles have right of way, so pedestrians and cyclists are supposed to get out of the way...
which london especially, and probably the rest of the uk doesn't have. someone was mentioning it in relation to pedestrians crossing roads in europe, where if you don't look at the driver of a car, they are more likely to slow/stop, where if you make eye contact they will assume that having seen them, you will let them pass. Where as over here it is the opposite.
Apologies for the sweeping generalisation, but from my limited experience, this seems to be the case..
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Do you have a link to info about the Copenhagen routes?
Being told off 3 time by police officier and playing the tourist card when I jump on the road to make a turn instead of having to make a bizarre manoverve.
The biggest difference I've notice is the cycling standard, I feel that the London cyclists are much more aware, rode better, and generally polite compared to the Copenhagen cyclists whom rode without skills.
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Here's a link to the superhighways Branwen - http://www.cykelsuperstier.dk/concept
My friend is from CPH, and now lives in London. He was so surprised to see that cars won't stop for you to cross at junction points. And the same in Holland, except that it's designed into the roads - cars pass over the pavement into smaller side roads, meaning its the ped's right of way in those situations.
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Work on CS5 the Barclays Superhighway starts this month, Oval to New cross for 22 weeks then Oval to Victoria. I'm sure the money would be better spent training cyclists how to ride on the road safely and sharing the road with other traffic rather than building cycle paths everywhere. They completely contradict the highway code overtaking on the inside, using pedestrian crossings, etc. I will be using a different route.
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Not sure where to post this, but I shit myself every time I see people ride straight across the new zebra crossing/cycle lane from Broadway mrkt to London fields.
Blind corner, some drivers driving fast, some aware of the crossing, many people on bikes riding straight across the zebra crossing without even slowing down, as though it were a clear right of way crossing/path!
Hope no one gets seriously hurt.
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Boris: "Not all cyclists want to use segregated gullies"
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/not-all-cyclists-want-to-use-segregated-gullies-says-boris/015578Too right
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Can't think of an appropriate thread in which to drop this:
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^^ Interesting idea, too bad it slows some cycling actions down.
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Can't think of an appropriate thread in which to drop this:
Give it it's own?
Or aren't we allowed to start threads any more?! :)
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Or aren't we allowed to start threads any more?! :)
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Cycle lanes
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Whilst 'positioning' is fine for the brave, I don't imagine a child or elderly person are going to 'take the lane'. They're going to just say, "I'm better off in a car".