Puerile sexist shite

I wonder if it's possible to create an idea of the ideal for the forum, the way that we'd want it to be as an online representation.

I'm afraid that I agree with the large number of those who feel that the forum contains a sexist element, but where I differ is that I don't think it's a new thing or that it's something on the rise... it's always been there, but with the increase in size it becomes more visible.

I recall a West drinks years ago... one of the early ones. Felicity and I were there, and it was put to Fizz by someone who perhaps thought it amusing, that the reason that I had not attended a ride the week prior was because I didn't have permission to come out... it wasn't quite a "ball and chain" comment... but even from that early moment it was plainly obvious that some people really were thinking in a way that I hadn't comprehended and that indeed it wasn't too surprising that fewer women exist in the community.

I see sexism and I see that the behaviours of some not only perpetuate sexism but also reward the sexism of others.

But I'm stuck in contradiction. Do I as admin do something about it, or should I let it be? This was the same question that was raised about the "glossy photos" thread, and unfortunately for those who would have me moderate everything I have a stronger belief in the need to keep the forum open, free of censorship and to allow the community to establish the decency levels and for the community to enforce them.

When it comes down to content I simply won't moderate anything that doesn't breach the limited rules that we have. And the rules that we have are there for 2 reasons, 1 is basic legal requirements (no race hate for example) and 2 to maintain a minimum level of service (no porn as it threatens that we will be blacklisted).

What I don't do is define a subjective level of decency. I don't push onto any of you the things I do or do not agree with, my morals, my ethics, my beliefs... you're free to act as you will.

Of course the downside to this is the sexist rubbish, the racist rubbish, all of that stuff.

I like to imagine, in fact this is where I get all hippy on you, that the community is a very large family, that we are a family who care for and protect each other, and that this loosely extends to all other cyclists.

I like to imagine that we have a good level of respect for each other, that we act fair by each other, that we would do unto others not just as we would have done to us but better than that.

I like to imagine that when things happen, that this community is there... standing strong and supporting each other.

I like to imagine that we don't need to create an artificial system of control to assess whether those in the family are behaving... I like us to exist in a little world free from censorship, a little world that operates as we would wish it, and most of us are anti-authoritarian to some degree and desire a free (as in speech) place in which we can exist.

For the most part this image although idyllic is actually factual. That in itself is incredible.

Where it goes wrong is in two places:
1) That some don't hold these ideals and manifest their prejudices in this grand conversation that this community has.
2) That those who do hold these ideals respond in a way not aligned with these ideals.

What I mean is that first people are sexist, racist, or just act like jerks... in fact let's just summarise all of that shite as being a muppet for the simplicity of it. So here we have muppets acting like muppets... but then instead of the idealistics attempting to unmuppetise the muppets... the idealists turn into muppets too.

And thus... a rapidly descending argument ensues, popcorn is brought forth, and then it all derails and dissipates.

With a lot of frustration I would ask, "Why can't we just step-back, listen to others, and try and aspire to treating each other in a cool way?". But this is the internet... what hope do we have? It's also a reflection on mankind who I'd put the same question to.

Fuck, I dunno... I guess I find both extremes as vile as each other. I like the middle ground, the mutual respect, the coolness of just being and enjoying being. I hate hate hate the notion that this community would need me, or anyone, to moderate it.

This is all a ramble. But really... instead of people getting defensive or picking apart every word someone says... let's simply exhibit the behaviour we want to see. Not just in one area, but in all areas.

I hate to invoke bill and ted, but... be excellent to each other.

And that means on here, and not just down the pub.

Show us your tits!

I think I can speak for all mankind when I say that I can't speak for all mankind.

1. Fred
   
2. Hugh Hefner
   
3. Heather Mills
   
4. Lady Gaga (not sexist)
   
5. Boutros boutros Ghali
   
6. Billy Ray Cyrus
   
7. Josef Fritzl
   
8. Usain Bolt
   

My hypocricy is capable of speaking for itself thank you scott...

Just accept that we're all as bad as each other. :)

Except for Balki, who really should be commended for his efforts to be so much worse. Like a little kitten trying to catch a butterfly.

This place is turning into a cult. Velocio sounds more and more like Charles Manson with each new post he makes. [insert emoticon of your preference]

I'm more about Rolling Stones than The Beatles.

Just accept that we're all as bad as each other. :)

I do, Scott.
I'm not trying to act like I'm an angel myself - I have fcuk all to say about cycling, so I compensate with chitchat. I like a good joke, even a rude joke, but I know when it's too much. I don't accept serious racist/homophobic/xenophobic comments (I assume that we all can feel if someone's joking or not) without even a tint of sarcasm or irony. I agree that we all can have different sensitivity, some people are also more serious than others and that was the reason I apologised to you - I realised that you don't appreciate shallow silliness and I wanted to respect that.
I think that the main problem with the internet forums is that it's not the same as direct contact where we can see others expressions and pick up the tone of their voice.

^^I was thinking more Bay City Rollers.

This place is turning into a cult. Velocio sounds more and more like Charles Manson with each new post he makes. [insert emoticon of your preference]

My all-time favourite nut job...

Check out this epic answer from Velocio in his recent interview:

YouTube - Charles Manson Sings

This place is turning into a cult. Velocio sounds more and more like Charles Manson with each new post he makes.

As Barry Grant said at the time: "What is it with you Mancs? One League title and you think you're Jesus Christ."

Except for Balki, who really should be commended for his efforts to be so much worse.

I roll the nickles man...

I gave all my material stuff to Velocio on signing up, but I can't help feeling I've been exploited. I've been chanting "you can't always get what you want" every day, like he prescribed, and yet the deep sensation of frustration has heightened if anything.

I'm still looking forward to discovering who he wants me to kill though.

I rule the nickles man...

fixed ;)

But this is the internet... what hope do we have? It's also a reflection on mankind who I'd put the same question to.

I'm always fazed by this point. 'It's the internet' . . . there is NO excuse for hiding behind keyboards and avatars. There have been some really vicious attacks on here, and completely uncalled for, so it that Ok coz 'it's online'? NO.

Some people seem to have 2 different personas, their (nasty) online one, and their 'real world' one.

Personally, I am no different on here than I am in person. I dont change my attitude or think it's ok to berate someone on their looks, choices, skin colour, religious beliefs, just coz they are not standing in front of me.

This forum, more than any other I am aware of thrives on it's social side, so the things you say 'online' transfer into peoples lives, and have consequence.

'Be excellent to each other' is a great idea, stop being a fucking dick online is an even better one!

VB - can I point out something that is quite trivial but at the same time, important. I think people might literally be seeing the forum in different ways. E.g, I dunno about you guys, but my homepage is not londonfgss.com, but http://www.londonfgss.com/search.php?do=getdaily, which is basically the 'POSTS' button on the top left, so I don't notice what sub-forum/group a particular thread has been posted in, because all recent threads with new posts in them come up indiscriminantly. I have a feeling most people, especially newer members, are going straight londonfgss.com, which is what we brand ourselves as to the public, then clicking 'General' or "Mics + Mean".

Maybe some people are seeing a thread in Misc and Mean and then assuming it's fair game to say whatever they want in it, derail it, post pictures of cakes and motivational posters - whatever, which is kind of fair enough in a way because that's how it is in most other forums out there - there is a specific place to post drivel if so desired, and it doesn't (or shouldn't) permeate the other parts of the forum.

I just noticed this thread is posted in "Forum Help and Testing Area". I didn't even know this subgroup existed, as i've always clicked on "POSTS". It has only 16 people viewing, compared to 125 for Bikes and Bits, and 79 for General. So, most people logging in to 'londonfgss.com' will just not see this thread. Don't we need a system where we all physically see the forum the same way, like the old vanilla-style forum? Maybe make the "POSTS" button more prominent or something, I dunno. I think it's harder to come to a consensus on things if we are seeing it in different ways.

Some people seem to have 2 different personas, their (nasty) online one, and their 'real world' one.

I think those people's 'real world' persona is probably nasty too (whoever you happen to be referring to).

The chances are they're more sophisticated in their offline modes of communication (perhaps subconsciously so), so the bigotry that rules their mental set is less obvious to all but the most experienced/perceptive observers.

I think you're right. Nasty through and throught. Unfortunately there will always be 'bad apples'
I just can't wait until the 'View Tag Authors' function is rolled out. Then lots of peple will be seen in the light they deserve.

I think those people's 'real world' persona is probably nasty too (whoever you happen to be referring to).

The chances are they're more sophisticated in their offline modes of communication (perhaps subconsciously so), so the bigotry that rules their mental set is less obvious to all but the most experienced/perceptive observers.

no you're a cunt.

I got a bit out of hand, I'm sorry.

I get really upselt when people think it's up to the minority to make society better for them, it's up to everyone. I don't mean this should become a totally pc forum, I just mean that respecting each other should be a priority for everyone.

no you're a cunt.

Now you're talking my language :)

I got a bit out of hand, I'm sorry.

I get really upselt when people think it's up to the minority to make society better for them, it's up to everyone. I don't mean this should become a totally pc forum, I just mean that respecting each other should be a priority for everyone.

+1 Well said!

I think those people's 'real world' persona is probably nasty too (whoever you happen to be referring to).

The chances are they're more sophisticated in their offline modes of communication (perhaps subconsciously so), so the bigotry that rules their mental set is less obvious to all but the most experienced/perceptive observers.

Interesting, so how do you judge people? pretty much everyone have prejudices or grudges which we withold in the real world......I don't know who to like anymore....

Interesting, so how do you judge people? pretty much everyone have prejudices or grudges which we withold in the real world......I don't know who to like anymore....

I just assume everyone's a cunt who will try to fuck me up. But I'm damaged goods.

...so, have we reached the point of the thread where we start posting motivational posters yet?