Do you think bike frame size is less important these days?

all you need is an experienced cyclist (or a good LBS) to look at you sat on a bike and riding it. if there is a fundamnetal change needed it's usually obvious to spot. this will get you close to a good fit. you can't do this online however.

Well.. I did.
My cyclefit barely changed my position from what I'd developed myself.
BUT! I did lots of reading, lots of testing, lots of kilometres, lots of altering, more tweaking, blah blah. People joining here tend to be "fix me up NOW.. fix this NOW.. want want want.." they don't have 10 years to tweak, measure, read, ride, read, tweak, etc. so if they're straight into "why do I hurt" they're hardly going to bother reading a bunch of bike fit theories..

I've generally suggested a fitting if you can afford it and DIY if you cannot.
Get a rule of thumb setup and start modifying variables one at a time noting the effects. Continue.

plus not many people ride as many miles as hippy. there are only a few people on here that could be categorised as truly long distance riders (I'm nowhere near it at this stage). For the most part, you should be able to get a bike set up in months with research and care that will certainly see you right for most of the forum rides.

this is from a man who, depending on the day, can hit the sixty mile mark and yelp like a slapped dog because of saddle issues, so I know all about discomfort. But a lot of knee pain and calf pain and back and neck and wrist pain are, in my experience, solvable by minor adjustments.

When it comes to fitting a bike to person and purpose. You cant get much better than Graham Obrees latest. Very long and look at that stem FSS.

true - but do the research well then the lbs should be looking at you and giving the stem or seatpost a tweak or two, nothing more..

I'm contextualising this in terms of buying an old bike or frame of ebay or on here btw, seeing as that's what so many people are plainly doing and it's what I do as I don't like the OTPs and can't afford me a nice Chas Roberts etc

you obviously know this already. the key is to find out your effective top tube plus stem length. you do this by either getting fitted or trial and error. i know i need a 55-55.5 plus 120 stem for track 55.5-56.5 plus 120 for road. this gives me leeway for sensible stem length if i stick to 55.5-56.5cm effective top tubes.
it's not difficult to work this shit out.

once you know this you can tell instantly if another bike is going to fit. give or take slight changes in seat angle.

another pet hat is 'nippy in town' just as much rapid changing of direction goes on with track and road riding using 130mm stems. boonen uses a 140, and how long is the stem on theo bos's bike?

I've generally suggested a fitting if you can afford it and DIY if you cannot.
Get a rule of thumb setup and start modifying variables one at a time noting the effects. Continue.

• lots and lots
  
  

1) Buy a bike book with a bike fit chapter;
2) Measure yourself;
3) Work out sizings from book + measurements;
4) Ride some - feels wrong?
5) Ride some more - still feels wrong = tweak
6) go back to step 4

I think it was Hippy who mentioned, on here, about taking allen keys on rides. To make adjustment while they're still fresh in you mind.

Bloody good advice if you ask me.

When it comes to fitting a bike to person and purpose. You cant get much better than Graham Obrees latest. Very long and look at that stem FSS.

Is that a chainring or a spare wheel?

Also glad to see that someone else puts their saddle so far back.

Also glad to see that someone else puts their saddle so far back.

Its no accident, its to further lenghen the bike for his 'superman' position without braking UCI regs (or something).
The BB shell is also narrower than standard to put his legs closer together for better aerodynamics.

Well.. I did.
My cyclefit barely changed my position from what I'd developed myself.
BUT! I did lots of reading, lots of testing, lots of kilometres, lots of altering, more tweaking, blah blah. People joining here tend to be "fix me up NOW.. fix this NOW.. want want want.." they don't have 10 years to tweak, measure, read, ride, read, tweak, etc. so if they're straight into "why do I hurt" they're hardly going to bother reading a bunch of bike fit theories..

I've generally suggested a fitting if you can afford it and DIY if you cannot.
Get a rule of thumb setup and start modifying variables one at a time noting the effects. Continue.

It is exactly what I do. Takes me about a few months to get a bike set up exactly the way I like it. Just changing saddle position, stem height until it is perfectly comfortable.

he also likes to sleep on it when he's not training to break the record.

I think it was Hippy who mentioned, on here, about taking allen keys on rides. To make adjustment while they're still fresh in you mind.

Yep. That was me.

Of course if I had listened to my own advice and carried allen keys on the White Rose, I could've tightened my loose headset out on the road.. fuck it.. what's the worst that can happen at 84kph with a loose headset? :)

The BB shell is also narrower than standard to put his legs closer together for better aerodynamics.

I think it is also supposed to be more powerful in a physiological sense (lower q factor, that is).

Of course if I had listened to my own advice and carried allen keys on the White Rose, I could've tightened my loose headset out on the road.. fuck it.. what's the worst that can happen at 84kph with a loose headset? :)

er, what? did you say 84kph?

Has any one recommended the Dave Moulton table yet?

Essentially its his knowledge of fitting and frame building put together so you can work out frame size, top tubes and stem length. It does seem to work

• lots and lots
  
  

1) Buy a bike book with a bike fit chapter;

'Zinn and the art of road bike maintenance' is pretty good IMO...although that had me coming out with a 70-70.5 cm top tube!

I'm 6"4 ride and ride a frame with a 58cm seat tube, 59cm top tube (I think) and it's very comfortable, I have quite an upright riding position when on the hoods which I like. Although I did get some knee pain on the Dragon ride, but I don't think that was due to my frame size/set up.

+1 Sheldonbrown.com

er, what? did you say 84kph?

Yes.

you obviously know this already. the key is to find out your effective top tube plus stem length. you do this by either getting fitted or trial and error. i know i need a 55-55.5 plus 120 stem for track 55.5-56.5 plus 120 for road. this gives me leeway for sensible stem length if i stick to 55.5-56.5cm effective top tubes.
it's not difficult to work this shit out.

once you know this you can tell instantly if another bike is going to fit. give or take slight changes in seat angle.

another pet hat is 'nippy in town' just as much rapid changing of direction goes on with track and road riding using 130mm stems. boonen uses a 140, and how long is the stem on theo bos's bike?

But where does that leave me if I want to run risers?

But where does that leave me if I want to run risers?

Is that a joke?

No I think it's very relevant many folk on here use them.

But where does that leave me if I want to run risers?

i always thought you looked a bit simian and on something.

I probably was on something but I'm also freshly shaven!

Bear in mind that most fit systems are based on averages of male pro racing cyclists and their positions in the mid 70s . I even think they were mostly italian

So, before you multiply your measurements by a % you need to ask your self, I am i riding the Tour this year? Most probably you are not

Here, btw , is the fit chart
http://www.prodigalchild.net/MoultonFrameSizeChart.pdf

No I think it's very relevant many folk on here use them.

Well it leaves you in the same position as everyone else not running risers, depending on where you want the bars to be depends on your stem length and angle (+/-) and the rise of the bars...or am I missing something?

For example on the Koga frame bike above if (god forbid) you had riser bars on there, for the same hand position equivalent to the flat of the drops you would have a flat stem of the same length probably and the rise of the bars would bring them up to the same height.

I have just a bike that's too big for me

you obviously know this already. the key is to find out your effective top tube plus stem length. you do this by either getting fitted or trial and error. i know i need a 55-55.5 plus 120 stem for track 55.5-56.5 plus 120 for road. this gives me leeway for sensible stem length if i stick to 55.5-56.5cm effective top tubes.
it's not difficult to work this shit out.

once you know this you can tell instantly if another bike is going to fit. give or take slight changes in seat angle.

Interestingly, despite being a few inches shorter than Gary I also ride a bike with a 55-56cm effective top tube but with a 100mm stem rather than 120. The big difference is that I have long arms. :^)

However, the relationship between effective top tube length and correct bike size can vary significantly depending on the seat tube angle (steeper seat tube angle means a longer front centre for the same effective top tube length).

The way most bike companies 'measure' frames is effectively meaningless; they would be better off sticking to XS, S, M, L, XL to describe their frames and then giving the full geometry as one companie's 56 fits the same as someone elses 52.

But where does that leave me if I want to run risers?

ha ha