Epic win

^^ You can't hold the view that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities and not be a feminist, that's the point of the flowchart.

Yes you can, that's the point of my post. If I asserted that my boss was a feminist, she would laugh in my face.

I don't know how to respond to this? With the exception of the second sentence it's nonsensical and/or irrelevant. In regard to the second sentence: that's the problem being addressed.

It is not a problem that some people dont self-identify as feminists. That's just a result of a free, well informed society where people can make up their own minds. It is a problem that there is gender inequality.

I agree with reclaiming the word feminism as no longer associated with some kind of militant activism, reclaiming it as a more inclusive word. I dont agree with telling people "you probably suck as a person" for not choosing to self identify with that word.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/11/19/goldieblox_commercial_rewrites_the_beastie_boys_urges_young_girls_to_pursue.html

sick advert for getting girls into engineering with the help of the beastie boys track girls

This one is awesome.

http://www.reklamefilmer.com/tv-reklame/640/Hydro:_Tog/

to william:

God you're tedious. It's a definition. Your boss can laugh in your face, but if she believes in equality between the sexes she's, by definition, a feminist.

A well-informed society is one that knows what words mean.

5 week erection caused by cycling accident..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2539022/Cyclist-22-erection-five-weeks-injuring-crossbar-bike.html

to william:

God you're tedious. It's a definition. Your boss can laugh in your face, but** if she believes in equality between the sexes she's, by definition, a feminist**.

A well-informed society is one that knows what words mean.

Isn't that only true if she's in a currently male dominated society? In the amazon society of my dreams, feminism would have a different meaning. There is probably a word for a belief in equality that's not based on the current society's mores

Do you mean a hypothetical society with a matriarchy? I agree that the word, if developed independently in your fantasy world, would be different.

Interesting (not very) that your name is slang for blowjob, Horatio

A lady in the Guardian last week said you could only be a feminist if you believed that women were more disadvantaged than men by inequality, so on those terms, you could be pro-equality but not a feminist.

I'm not sure who those people would be though.

Every Presta Tube has a Presta Valve Adapter - YouTube

Who wants to carry around all that extra weight on their valves?

Soon be a big fat cheque dropped through my door after that smash july 12.
Win

Awesome!

Some people (both men and women) dont want equality.

Any woman who does not believe in equality, or who does not understand that feminism = equality needs educating. Men likewise.

No, equality = equality. Why use a different word for a concept that we already have a word for? Feminism, inasmuch as it's the promotion of women's rights where they are currently lacking, aims to achieve gender equality. There are a small number of areas in which men's rights arguably lag behind e.g., paternity leave, custody decisions, so why not just describe yourself as pro gender equality?

^^ You can't hold the view that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities and not be a feminist, that's the point of the flowchart.

Not according to this, which also takes on the flow chart.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/09/not-a-feminist-move-on-men-women

to william:

God you're tedious. It's a definition. Your boss can laugh in your face, but if she believes in equality between the sexes she's, by definition, a feminist.

A well-informed society is one that knows what words mean.

I happen to disagree with you. Yes, it can be tedious when people dont accept everything you say without questioning it. I guess that's life.

You seem a bit pissed off I didnt mean anything personally, just echoing the views of some people I have worked with. My sister feels this way too, though when I asked her about it she also said 'what the fuck do you care anyway you're a man', and I guess she has a point.

Do you mean a hypothetical society with a matriarchy? I agree that the word, if developed independently in your fantasy world, would be different.

Speaking of fantasy worlds, I guess some people aspire to a world where being at the top of your profession and a woman, (my boss, my sister) is no longer remarkable. Perhaps some people choose not to self identify as 'feminist' because it undermines their achievements - they are individuals, their success is their own, not a statement about their gender.

Importantly, there is no suggestion here that Feminism should not be promoted as inclusive and wide in meaning (it definitely should), just that we all have a choice as to how we describe ourselves. Our opinions are not nescessarily mutually exclusive, Horatio.

I happen to disagree with you. Yes, it can be tedious when people dont accept everything you say without questioning it. I guess that's life.

You seem a bit pissed off I didnt mean anything personally, just echoing the views of some people I have worked with. My sister feels this way too, though when I asked her about it she also said 'what the fuck do you care anyway you're a man', and I guess she has a point.

Speaking of fantasy worlds, I guess some people aspire to a world where being at the top of your profession and a woman, (my boss, my sister) is no longer remarkable. Perhaps some people choose not to self identify as 'feminist' because it undermines their achievements - they are individuals, their success is their own, not a statement about their gender.

Importantly, there is no suggestion here that Feminism should not be promoted as inclusive and wide in meaning (it definitely should), just that we all have a choice as to how we describe ourselves. Our opinions are not nescessarily mutually exclusive, Horatio.

I'm more than happy to have disagreements with people. But they require actual engagement for them to not be tedious. There is very little in your posts (for example, the two above) with which I can engage in in a meaniingful way.

Let me try again:

I am using a definition of feminism which is available both in dictionaries and the literature.

This definition is, for the most part, a standard, accepted, definition.

When one wants to know what a feminist is, they go to these sources (not the Comment is Free part of the Guardian web page. Regardless of how interesting the post is, it's simply one person’s editorial opinion).

I am using this definition as an icebreaker (purposefully hyperbolic) in lectures and classes to make it clear to people that the understanding of the term they've perhaps gathered up to that point may be an unhelpful place to start engaging with the ideas in the class.

Anecdotes about your sister and boss don't, and will not, factor into this.

Self-identification is perhaps interesting, but will lead nowhere in the context I was discussing (and probably nowhere overall).

There is very little in your posts (for example, the two above) with which I can engage in in a meaniingful way.

Happily, despite this you have written an interesting reply. As a purposefully hyperbolic icebreaker, I can see why you would use the flowchart. In the context of a class (how old are they?) a simplistic statement like a definition can be useful to get the ball rolling.

I'm slightly confused by the idea that self-identification will probably lead nowhere overall. You self identify every time you interact with another person, or make a work of art, or hold an opinion. A sense of identity is a massive and fundamental thing to the people you are teaching, whoever they are.

This definition is, for the most part, a standard, accepted, definition

I think you're proving yourself wrong, here. ha.

Happily, despite this you have written an interesting reply. As a purposefully hyperbolic icebreaker, I can see why you would use the flowchart. In the context of a class (how old are they?) a simplistic statement like a definition can be useful to get the ball rolling.

I've restated what I've already said in more words.

University students.

I'm slightly confused by the idea that self-identification will probably lead nowhere overall. You self identify every time you interact with another person, or make a work of art, or hold an opinion. A sense of identity is a massive and fundamental thing to the people you are teaching, whoever they are.

I should perhaps have said self-defining what a feminist is.

Any preconceived conceptions of the meaning of a topic as complicated and problematic as this can be difficult to overcome. Cognitive dissonance is strong.

I think you're proving yourself wrong, here. ha.

If I understand your point, can I suggest you read the sentence before the one you quoted? People on a cycling forum do not factor.

What is the subject you teach? Politics? Sociology?

internetting

This page is not full of win