Formula One ( F1 )

Gotta love Murray's reaction (skip to around 4 minutes) to this one:

BTCC Silverstone Finale 1992 - last three laps! - YouTube

I miss Murray.

Doesn't even bat an eyelid!

True, but they can't of expected Sutil to be stuck in the pits as De Resta was heading in. If the pit stop had gone to plan it wouldn't of been an issue.

but thats the risk management, plus Sutil's pit-stop didnt take too much longer than 1 second than average - the mech failure happened afterwards

Not really, quite a few teams done it. The second or two that they're usually held there for is a much smaller loss than being out on track on the wrong tyre. Unfortunately when coupled with a bad pit stop it can be quite a pain.

at this level? haven't seen it on Sunday, or they just didnt show? in which case bad bad luck all these ^ combined

So I’ve been thinking a bit about this whole Vettel disobeying team orders malarkey and although my initial thoughts were ‘he’s such a cunt’, I now have a different view. I have always disliked team orders. I like cars/drivers to race! The number of times I’ve wished Barrichello disobeyed the team orders that benefitted Schumacher back in the Ferrari days were plenty! I wish Rosberg did a Vettel in Malaysia as well and overtook Hamilton. It would have been so much more interesting. So now, I think - fair play Seb, that’s what a winner and a champ should do. Fuck team orders. I did feel sorry for Webber though but I think ultimately he’s pissed off because he knows Vettel is better than him and he can’t do anything about it. He should man up a bit and just get his own back if he’s that riled by it all.

This season is certainly going to be very spicey from now on I reckon! Bring it.

^ this. Its a race, and the only exciting racing that happened on Sunday was between the two Red Bulls in the last ten laps.

I think that's fair enough if the playing field is level- however they'd both been told to turn their engines down had they not? But Vettel didn't.

If Webber had done what the team ordered and Vettel hadn't then yes, Vettel is going to go past- he's got the faster car.

That aside, would we have seen Vettel make that pass if he wasn't secure in the knowledge that Webber would only defend so far?

i.e. would he have hussled say Raikonen in the same manner, knowing that he'd have no issues at all with taking his nose cone off?

The thing that leaves a bad taste in my mouth is that this is not competition, it's Vettel taking advantage of Webber- fine if Webber was allowed to fight back, or compete with Vettel but he's clearly not.

Also Webbers personal moral code clearly makes him the team player that Vettel is not.

Let Christian Horner tell Webber "yeah, knock him off the racetrack if you have to"...

This situation is, in part, created by the need to preserve the cars due to the limitations on how many engines and gearboxes and whatever else the teams are allowed. If there were no limitations then they wouldn't need to nurse the cars home so much (although tyre wear was a factor in the race as well for the Red Bulls).

Obviously, going back to unlimited replacement engines etc raises the cost of running a team/gives those with limitless budgets the upper hand.

So I've been thinking

Really gridds?

As Dammit has said, Vettel did not compete, and show his superior skill, he simply took advantage of his team mate following team instructions to turn his engine down. Had Webber not done this, he would have definitely have won. BUT, his and Vettel's engines would have not lasted for many races, and the amount of engines a team can use (without onerous penally) is finite.

There was nothing at all that was positive in what Vettel did. If Webber was so slow, why was he ahead when both their engines were turned up. If Vettel were so good, surely he would have easily been ahead of Webber.

If there were no limitations then the cars would be a hell of a lot faster and we'd be back to the previous era of no overtaking aside from the pitstops.

At the end of the day, Vettel is a Red Bull employee. He was told what to do, he ignored it. May as well have been one of the pit crew who said "Fuck it i'm not going to change this tyre". Rosberg was in the same situation, he was more mature, Brawn was more firm. Everything worked out fine.

I don't think anyone is denying that it was great racing, and it's not really got anything to do with whether we think team orders are good or not (for what it's worth, i'd rather see pure racing, but the team need secure points for their income in order to remain competitive. So I can respect their decision).

It's about Vettel thinking he's bigger than his employers.

I think one thing some recent posts are showing, is those that are made by those who work as managers, and those that don't.

My job is making coffee ;)

Coulthard nailed it when he said the drivers will move on almost immediately but the media and public will keep going on about it for weeks.

We'll see. I look forward to Webber putting Vettel into a wall when it matters.

Oh wait, this is F1 not WWF?

Coulthard nailed it when he said the drivers will move on almost immediately but the media and public will keep going on about it for weeks.

more like until next race.

when is it?

Coulthard nailed it when he said the drivers will move on almost immediately but the media and public will keep going on about it for weeks.

I doubt it in this case considering it's the latest situation in a long running, rather dirty battle between the two. It's probably a good thing to note that Coulthard will always try to paint Red Bull in as good a light as possible. One of the reasons I miss Eddie Jordan is that he's not afraid to ask the questions that everyone is thinking. I can't believe i'm about to say this, but it's great to have Suzi Perry as a pundit! She made him look pretty uncomfortable with some of the questions she was asking.

more like until next race.

when is it?

China, 2 and a half weeks. Live on BBC also.

Jenson Button is ready to comment on the burning issues of the day

"I have to lie down because my shoes have no grip, the balance is all wrong!"

John Watson says that Vettel should be stood aside for one race by Red Bull.

Interesting ideas from a respected former racer. I agree, that Vettel's actions have undermined Christian Horner's position within the team.

How can Horner tell anyone in the team to do anything, when one employee chooses to ignore his direct instructions? I hadn't thought of it in that light, but yes, that is an inevitable conclusion, that Horner's authority is now in question.

^Gerhard Berger's input in the above link is more accurate than Watson's analysis.
It's very early in the season, I think the team are going to put this behind them as quickly as possible and Horner will brush it off as a case of, "Well, they're racing drivers, you know."
I think RBR already realise that they aren't, and that there's no such thing as, the perfect racing team.

^ exactly.

I think it's more like that that foul, horrible, hypocrite Helmut Marco is the authority in Red Bull Racing, Horner is just the face for the media. That is why Horner has no real clout. Webber knows this and sure as hell Vettel knows this.
Vettel will not get any punishment.

This is hard to believe, even for me, but since when did Lewis become canny?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21924821

In the BBC article, he says that Mercedes have the second fastest car, and he hopes that Mercedes can make it the fastest.

I can only take that to be clever gamesmanship, to rattle the other teams a bit, but also a psychological tool too boost the Mercedes engineers back at the factory. But it does seem an odd thing to say, even in slight jest.

At the moment, the quick teams are Lotus, Ferrari, The Vettel team, and Mercedes, and how does Lewis see the Mercedes as being the second fastest in that group? I believe that Ferrari have upgrades due, and have been fast anyway; same goes for Lotus, and The Vettel team. Is this wishful thinking, or do Mercedes have the capacity to improve so much, that they are second fastest now, and could be fastest.

I'm a big Lewis fan, but I don't believe this. Anyway, McLaren have made such a leap from one race to another, that if they keep this up, by halfway through the season, they'll be challenging for a podium.

....I think it's more like that that foul, horrible, hypocrite Helmut Marco is the authority in Red Bull Racing, Horner is just the face for the media. That is why Horner has no real clout. Webber knows this and sure as hell Vettel knows this.....

Yes, I'd forgotten this. Absolutely right.