Locks that work

This is one of the best threads ever. The line I draw is whether a lock or chain can be hand-cropped or whether it requires an angle-grinder, hydraulic cutter, or torch. Once an angle grinder or torch is pulled out, it's game over.

It looks like 16mm chain is clearly uncroppable. Does anyone have actual data on 14 and 15mm chains like the ABUS 14KS and the Kryptonite 15mm chain? I have not seen any actual reviews or videos of these chains being cropped.

If the links are squared in shape, I'd trust them. If round, then I wouldn't.

Anyone know a place I can go to get a couple of OnGuard Bulldog Mini's tomorrow?

Online won't arrive in time.

Cheers

whatok, why that particular lock, is it the price? I only ask because the Secondary Locks thread has other similar locks at low prices also. I couldn't find availability for the Bulldog Mini, but if you have a look in the other thread, you'll find locks that are available. Sorry if that wasn't helpful enough. Also, the Secondary Locks thread is the one that deals with locks of that specification.

if one will suffice then amazon have one in stock available for delivery tomorrow if you have prime membership (which if you've not tried before has a free one-month trial you can cancel as soon as you get your order through if need be)

Onguard Bulldog Mini DT-8015 Keyed Shackle Lock - Black, 9.0x14.0 cm: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

have to order by 11.30am though

edit: fuck it's literally just gone out of stock... 2 minutes later

edit 2: there's another one in stock here Onguard Bulldog Mini-8013 Keyed Shackle Lock - Black, 9.0x14.0 cm: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors but the photo is wrong. caveat emptor...

Ah it's fine, thanks for the help guys. I'm going to borrow a couple similar from someone in the end.

GA2G, the price, for a secondary lock with a dual mechanism is very attractive. I already have a krypto mini but feel it is overpriced. I used this thread because it had the most exposure, sorry!

No need for apologies, both threads link back to each other from each of their first pages. But you're right, this thread is better known. The Magnum LK3103 is looking a good bet at the moment also. There's a west London internet-shop that sells them, but I'm not sure if physical collections could be arranged.

I found the Squire Hammerhead lock. It looks to be truly excellent, and I shall be including it in the Secondary Locks list.

Can I ask if you have any feeling why you think the Hammerhead might be an excellent lock?

You might be interested that we used to sell the Squire Urban Paramount D-lock as a decent compromise between security level, weight and price. Squire have withdrawn that and have replaced it with the Hammerhead. We have refused to carry that so far because it is made in China (not a good start for us), but also particularly because it has an inferior cylinder (the 'P5' 5-pin cylinder, cf. the Squire 6-pin 'KIK' cylinder that underpins the Stronghold range of locks such as the SS50CS and that was also used in the Urban Paramount), and the Hammerhead is heavier (1.74kg on the one I've just weighed, including carrying bracket). We tend to think the main role for D-locks is for portable security so weight is critical. However, several of the Kryptonite etc D-locks that you favour are very heavy so I am interested in people's views on all this?

How much weight are you willing to carry?

How do you carry the Kryptonite etc locks as I think many don't come with a carry bracket?

Are you interested in the advantages of a superior cylinder in your locks such that you could have a D-lock for portable security and a chain & padlock back at home, and maybe a third lock on your shed door, with all locks on the same key ("Keyed Alike" in the jargon)? This was possible with the Urban Paramount, including retrospectively, but that is not practical with the Hammerhead and indeed with the vast majority of products from the big-name manufacturers. Sometimes, manufacturers will offer Keyed-Alike as an option, but if the resellers don't carry any, and if they don't bother to offer a key-matching (retrospective keyed-alike) service, it can end up rather hollow. The Chinese-manufactured locks tend to suffer from this if the final product is not re-keyable, which many aren't. Squire are very good at making locks to order that match the key on the lock you had potentially years earlier. I personally hate carrying bunches of keys so really rate the ability to get lots of locks onto the same key. Am I different?/Do you not care about having different keys all over the place?

Squire have also talked about offering the Hammerhead with the better 6-pin cylinder so if they do, that might take away one of our gripes with it.

(I should say Kryptonite's products are also all made in China as far as we know, as is the case with a lot of the big-name manufacturers. At least Squire do make their top-of-the-range locks here in the UK - I know because I've seen the machines that do it! This aspect also helps them to give an excellent 10-year guarantee and very good backup on the rare occasions when things have gone wrong, as well as a quick turnaround on Keyed-Alike orders etc.)

The good news with the Hammerhead is that it is cheaper than the Urban Paramount was. The Hammerhead RRP is £54.98 inc VAT but I imagine there will be better deals than that from various stockists.

Cheers,

Steve.

How do you carry the Kryptonite etc locks as I think many don't come with a carry bracket?

http://static.lfgss.com/attachments/37386d1300119646-imgp3081.jpg

Thanks for that Hatbeard; it shows that Pragma has not been kept in the loop (pun alert!).

@Pragma, No.....I don't have a problem carrying different keys - I keep them together on a keyring. Doesn't everyone?

And as for your backing for made-in-Britain, I do applaud your faith in UK manufacture, but in truth, for companies that need to maximise profits, a lot of manufacture made in China does make financial sense, and it can be of the best quality [Apple demonstrates this well].

I'm not that bothered about the lock being a five or six pin cylinder affair. I think it probably made down to a price point, and on this thread, the Squire Hammerhead lock is considered a secondary lock, and not a main one.

Your posts are always informative, if not lengthy, and sometimes its hard to reach the end; but since you are an industry insider, I can only thank you for your input.

By the way, if you have any sway at all with Squire, can you ask them if they would consider offering again to the public their absolutely supreme Squire Paramount Plus lock? It was pure lunacy to abandon it. It is a lock that could command a premium price, and compete with the very best and strongest locks. Squire's offerings over recent years seem anaemic in comparison.

^GA2G i think in previous posts he's mentioned that through his dealings with factories in china they often cannot guarantee the makeup of the steel used which impacts the strength and response to hardening techniques of the product, insofar as one batch may differ to another in their composition so the end result is unpredictable.

Thanks for that Hatbeard; it shows that Pragma has not been kept in the loop (pun alert!).

@Pragma, No.....I don't have a problem carrying different keys - I keep them together on a keyring. Doesn't everyone?

Sure, maybe it's because of the number of things we're involved with that we end up with huge bunches of keys if we don't get them keyed-alike. If people aren't bothered then that's fine.

And as for your backing for made-in-Britain, I do applaud your faith in UK manufacture, but in truth, for companies that need to maximise profits, a lot of manufacture made in China does make financial sense, and it can be of the best quality [Apple demonstrates this well].

It can be good quality but a lot of it isn't, or is very variable. That is where I have a particular problem with it. Kryptonite manufacture in China but their top-end locks are very good so fair enough. A lot of the others that are not so serious, many of whom have what I think to be a very disrespectful attitude to their customers, so it can be a minefield to buy with any confidence.

I'm not that bothered about the lock being a five or six pin cylinder affair. I think it probably made down to a price point, and on this thread, the Squire Hammerhead lock is considered a secondary lock, and not a main one.

Your posts are always informative, if not lengthy, and sometimes its hard to reach the end; but since you are an industry insider, I can only thank you for your input.

Apologies for being too wordy ;-) I'll try and keep things brief from now on. Squire's 5-pin cylinder is still a good one and is used in the SS50P5 open shackle padlock that they put through Sold Secure after our request (we needed something to replace the Masterlock M50D, as mentioned elsewhere). They do take notice of requests.

By the way, if you have any sway at all with Squire, can you ask them if they would consider offering again to the public their absolutely supreme Squire Paramount Plus lock? It was pure lunacy to abandon it. It is a lock that could command a premium price, and compete with the very best and strongest locks. Squire's offerings over recent years seem anaemic in comparison.

I can ask. We never had any experience with that one. I know with the Urban Paramount that they ended up actually losing money on it so something had to change.

Re the Hammerhead, if you want one to test I can send you one we've got here FoC if you PM me your address. I might take the liberty of including a few links of our 'Protector' chains so you can see what you think of them, too :-)

Cheers,

Steve.

http://static.lfgss.com/attachments/37386d1300119646-imgp3081.jpg

Thanks. Useful to know. Is the belt a commercial thing or a home-made modification?

Cheers,

Steve.

it's a common accessory made from bits of seatbelt that loops over your belt to form a loop big enough for the shackle to fit through.

they're cheap (~£10) and a large number of companies make them (fabric horse, restrap) sizing varies depending on the lock you intend to use.

Thanks again. Hadn't seen anything like that before. Useful again.

(I've asked Squire about the Paramount Plus and will relay any answer.)

^GA2G i think in previous posts he's mentioned that through his dealings with factories in china they often cannot guarantee the makeup of the steel used which impacts the strength and response to hardening techniques of the product, insofar as one batch may differ to another in their composition so the end result is unpredictable.

I'd read that post on the day he made it.

I'm trying to decide between a Fahg and an Onguard Brute STD.

I know the Fahg is a better lock but you can get the Brute for £24. It just seems like a better deal.

The Brute STD seems to be one to go for. The Brute mini looks tiny.

Should I stump up for the Fahg or go cheap. Help me decide.

The two Kryptonites shown above are the Fahg Mini and the Evolution 4 Mini. The standard sized Kryptonite equivalent to the OnGuard Brute (standard) is either Kryptonite New York Standard or the New York 3000.

The Brute Mini is the one that is similar to the Fahg Mini. The Fahg Mini is the number one recommended lock on this forum, and in this thread. Do you need further reassurances? More expensive, yes, but better too.

But if you're a cheapskate (like me) then the Brute might be the one you choose.

I know the Fahg is a better lock but you can get the Brute for £24. It just seems like a better deal.

How much is the cost and inconvenience of having your bike stolen, and how much do you increase the chance of that happening with the Brute compared to the Fahg?

Thanks GA2G & Mirius. Really I know the answer to my questions, I just want people to make me choose.

I am a massive cheapskate and we are talking £24 vs £68.

But the Fahg is less likely to jam/stick. I'll decide after lunch. (#firstworldproblems)

The Brute Mini is the one that is similar to the Fahg Mini.

p.s. The measurements say that the Brute STD and the Fahg are closest. The Brute mini is closer to the size of the Evo.

is that a brooks honey?

Yes darling, with a new type of tynanpaste on it.

Thanks GA2G & Mirius. Really I know the answer to my questions, I just want people to make me choose.

I am a massive cheapskate and we are talking £24 vs £68.

But the Fahg is less likely to jam/stick. I'll decide after lunch. (#firstworldproblems)

You only intend to use one lock? That would be the false economy in my eyes, if that is the case.