Bike fit / correct riding position

Bit of a funny one, been riding my awol for a while, but starting to feel a bit to much weight on hands.

Saddle (Phenom) is quite far back on a layback seatpost, and the AWOL has a whopping TT already (with a 70mm stem). Saddle is flat, slight nose up. Also tried a Bontrager Verse Comp, same issue.

Height is ok, no straight legs etc.

Typically is I'd think next step would be size up frame, but that would be massive.

6ft, 86cm inseam, large frame.

Thoughts? Can't really move the saddle back, and thinking a 60mm stem (or 50) might be a bit tooo short.

Stupid question, but are you actually sitting on the saddle in such a way that you're letting it take a good amount of your weight? I only ask because I had a similar problem, and had had a couple of fits which hadn't addressed it; it was only when I realised that out on the road, with winds and trying to ride efficiently (as opposed to on the jig), I was pulling down into the bars and rolling miles forward on the saddle. With a slightly longer and lower stem, and actually making sure I used the saddle to take some weight, the hand discomfort went away, and I got much better glute engagement to boot.

Hmm not sure, how did you test that / change?

Accidentally bumped into an sqlab fitting area while on vacation in Munich and got some interesting results after fitting - they said my sitting bones measure 10.8, while previously, during retul fit i've been told they're 12.5. Kind of a big difference.

From what I remember, on retul fit they used a digital device, almost a tablet like and here it worked like this - you sit on a dotted paper, grab handles below your chair and pull yourself down so you sort of stretch the dotted paper. Which method is more likely to be wrong?

Didn't ask the guy about it as the language barrier was apparent.

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Order a new road bike through local bike shop. The bike has 44cm wide bars and I need 38cm bars. Only bars bike shop have in stock are 38cm at the tops with a flare to 42cm in the drops. They can do a straight swap at no cost.

Flared drops are completely new to me. I plan to use the bike for some light gravel. Any reason to avoid?

Not that I can think of, especially at no cost. My FSA Omega have a similar geo, maybe slightly less flare, but works for me.

Any recommendations for a bike fitter that looks at the body both on and off the bike? I've seen a couple of physios in the last year to address imbalances in strength and body position, notably hip tilt, shoulder drop, glute and calf over/under inactivity. It's been really interesting but neither have really been able to help with how this might affect/be affected by bike fit. Am I imbalanced by my bike fit, or is my fit affected by my imbalances?

I'd love to speak to someone who could look at these as a whole, and I'd be willing to take the day to travel if necessary. I've moved to West Wales so expect to!

From looking back through this thread and keeping an eye out on socials, my very short list is:
-Nichola Roberts at Velophysio (@spinnnout gave a shining review)
-@Scherrit at Bike Whisperer (from @JB recommendation)
-Tim at Soigneur (seems like a nice guy from socials)
-The guys at Bicycle Richmond (From Youtube and Instagram these guys obviously come across as a very complete service, but there is something salesy and overconfident about them that puts me off. Reviews tend to be great, but price also reflects this)

I had a fairly disappointing bike fit 3 years ago, where the fitter was very reliant on motion tracking and didn't once look at my ranges of motion or compensatory behaviours. Really interested to hear personal experiences with any of the above, and if anyone can recommend someone not listed, I WANT to hear. Cheers!

another vote for @scherrit

or cyclefit

If Scherrit, who is very holistic, is unavailable, I'd go to Bicycle Richmond. I fully believe in all of James's fitting methodology - particularly around feet. I know lots of people who have had good experiences with him, too. Pricey, but nice.

Garth Kruger at Vankru.

@scherrit is a good mate but I've still paid him a lot of money over the years for fitting so I believe in his methods (I'm still using his crazy midfoot setups more than 10 years later). He has some shoes currently being converted midfoot actually.

I also trust and use Nichola for physio (not seen her for fitting, mostly for injury recovery).

Mat at FDN (in the Lee Valley velodrome) is excellent IME.

imbalances in strength and body position, notably hip tilt, shoulder drop, glute and calf over/under inactivity.

Another vote for @scherrit here. Most of the fit time is spent off the bike.
For what it's worth, I realised I also suffer from the same traits as you mention. Apparently it's very common; especially in people (such as myself) who spent several years sitting at a desk and not exercising!!
Although Scherrit recognised my imbalance, it didn't affect the bike fit; but did affect my efficiency on the bike as every time I pushed on my right pedal, my body would lunge forward slightly rather than transferring the effort through the drivetrain.
Scherrit spotted this (before I'd even sat on the bike) and referred me to a well respected physio; in Wales as it happens.
One session with her and I started a long road to recovery. Basically she gave me specific exercises to do every day for life. I'll probably never be perfectly balanced as no one is 100% but I'm much better than I was and don't injure myself now if I overdo it ;-)

That’s fantastic, thanks for going into so much detail!

Looks like @scherrit is the guy to see. If @hippy can tolerate 24hr TTs on his fit, you’d imagine he’s well set up. Thanks for all the responses!

Has anyone used myvelofit for bike sizing?

I’ve just done a sizing fit and it’s given me a size up from I’d normally use. How much trust should be put into it?

Sram says "pros and competitive riders alike spend 80 to 90 percent of their time riding on the hoods". And hoods are getting longer and longer. I think Grx Di2 hoods are longer than DA? And the newly announced Sram Red AXS 12x look to be the longest of all. (They're 6mm longer than Sram's predecessor, to accommodate a new piston). All of which makes me wonder whether we should talk less about handlebar reach and drop and a lot more about hoods! Do professional fitters even put the hood length number on their diagrams? I don't think mine did. And I think they measured me when I was on the drops.

New Sram next to Grx:

Reviews of the new Sram Red:
http://www.cyclist.co.uk/reviews/sram-red-axs-groupset-review-2024
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-gear/first-ride-review-sram-red-axs

I heard someone from ineos say on a podcast recently that riders started getting injuries and they worked out it was because the new Dura ace had longer hoods.

Blimey. What sort of injury? Got a link?

it was this Escape Collective podcast https://pca.st/episode/2145799a-432e-4e97-b398-12654ad841e5

I can't remember what the injuries were but I think it was something like saddle sores rather than anything that would require medical attention. (maybe "injuries" is overselling it!)

Sounds like a bike fit disaster! I'm having a listen and hoping it's within the first 23 mins, which is the most I can get for free.

I wonder whether the saddle sores may have been related not only to hood length but also to fitting angle? This para from the Cyclist review seems relevant: "That more aggressive reach created by the control shape has been balanced by SRAM recommending a setup angle of 7° above horizontal. I’ve found this works to ensure that while there’s the opportunity to get low there, the levers don’t feel too far round the bars when riding in a more relaxed position, as they rise to meet the riders’ hands. If 7° sounds a little too specific, SRAM says the hood grooves are arranged to help make correct setup easier in both horizontal and sagittal planes."

it says 46 minutes long for me and i don't have a subscription either

Ah. So i can also have 46 mins, and the total is 92 mins. FFS.

it was this Escape Collective podcast https://pca.st/episode/2145799a-432e-4e9­7-b398-12654ad841e5

At 38 mins the Gebiomized bike fitter talks about Dura Ace being updated in 2023. The lever/hood was longer. So the riders' hands moved further forward. So the shoulder angle changed. 8 out of 10 riders moved their pelvis forward and got saddle discomfort. So their saddles were moved forward.

What he doesn't say is whether the adjustments imposed by the new hoods might justify a shorter top tube or stem or crank length...

It's definitely an issue. For a while now I've been tracking the distance saddle between nose and what I call the "hood outside crook". Basically, the outside of where my finger/thumb junction will fall when riding on the hoods.

The problem is, there isn't a very consistent way to measure it between groupsets, so it's not as objective a measure as BB centre to saddle top, or saddle setback, for example. Not all levers have a completely flat bit followed by a pointing up bit where it's clear exactly where your hand will always rest.

Longest lever reach I have is the Shimano RS505, followed by SRAM rival, and then all the rest of my Shimano stuff is a long way behind that. All of them look shorter than that new SRAM Red. I've used shorter stems than usual where the lever reach is longer, but that also has an impact on other things.

Can we pls make a petition to standardise lever reach? 😉

It's a bit crap of the bike industry not to speak out about this. Hood length has increased by 4 or 5 inches over the years. More and more riders have got in the habit of riding on them.

Are there any bike fit services which address it? Or do they duck the issue by not even measuring you on your own bike?