Bike fit / correct riding position

Thanks dude. interesting read
since upgrading my bike ive had some beef with pain above knees and more recently lower back. considering bike fit but jury is still out for me.

What changed with the new bike? Are you more stretched out? Are you riding more?

I do cover my knees when it gets cold but the problem occurs regardless of temperature. ive tried my seat high and gradually lowering but still havent found the sweet spot yet. cadence is high but not high enough by the sound of things. I did go to beau velo but the pro fitter guy they use wasnt around so just got some info from the main guy after he watched me on the rollers for 30 mins.

My new bike is similar in size but old one was an old claud butler san remo 9 speed with really short cranks whereas new has decent group and 172.5mm cranks. im 6ft2 tho.

Length may do it; I'm not tall (5'10.5") but long legged and use 165s or 170s on all my bikes.
Do you still have the old cranks? Maybe try them out.

I'm 5'10" and use 172.5 170 and 165mm cranks. I doubt crank length is the issue here.
When you say similar in size - actually measure them and compare - you might be surprised to find a few centimetres difference - it can make a world of difference.

I use 175mm, 170mm, and 165mm on all my bike.

Cranks length are not important, it's in your head.

Like hippy said, new bike might be longer, or shorter on the top tube, it could have a steeper angle etc.very hard to gauge what might be wrong over the Internet, pop down to a reputable bike shop and ask for their help on fit.

Cranks length are not important, it's in your head.

No, you're cranky in the head.

Cool thanks
any recommendations on where to go to get it sorted?

I have an Orbea Onix much like this...

I'm 5'9", the saddle is at a reasonable height, I have recently lowered it even, 90mm stem. But I find I have two problems;

1. If I sit properly on the saddle I feel as though I am pushing forward on the pedals, so I sit on the front of the saddle to bring myself over the pedals, but I also feel a bit stretched to reach the bars.
   
2. When honking I feel like I am too far over the handlebars.
   
   

My theory is that I need a frame with a steeper seat tube angle, this would bring me closer to the bars and bring the BB further back under me, and with the BB further back I won't feel like I'm on top of the bars when honking.

Any other ideas?
Anyone know where I can go for frame fitting in Liverpool?
Any recommendations for road frames with steep set tubes?

it looks like the frame is too big for you. Try sitting on it, proping yourself up against a wall or something and move one of the cranks to the 3 o'clock position. A general rule of thumb is to have the front edge of your knee be directly above the ball of your pedal axle.

Maybe try a zero setback seatpost and a longer stem? That's what I'm trying at the moment for similar reasons to what you're describing. Haven't been out for a proper ride with the new setup yet so I guess the jury's still out, but feels better on the rollers.

Since writing the above I had a flash of inspiration, I reversed the seatpost so now it is set forward. It tilts up a bit at the front but a quick spin around the block and I was comfortably sitting square on the saddle for the first time ever! Bike looks a bit strange now though, I'll have to try a zero setback post see if that is as good.

I don't think the frame is too big, I'm 5'9" and the frame is a 51cm about as small as they come and knee was above pedal but it just wasn't comfortable for me, I must have a peculiar stroke, oo er missus!

Sheldon Brown posted an essay about KOPS by Keith Bontrager many years ago. Makes for an interesting read, you may or may not find it illuminating.

Since writing the above I had a flash of inspiration, I reversed the seatpost so now it is set forward. It tilts up a bit at the front but a quick spin around the block and I was comfortably sitting square on the saddle for the first time ever! Bike looks a bit strange now though, I'll have to try a zero setback post see if that is as good.

I don't think the frame is too big, I'm 5'9" and the frame is a 51cm about as small as they come and knee was above pedal but it just wasn't comfortable for me, I must have a peculiar stroke, oo er missus!

I had the very same experience a month ago - woodoo stuff.

Yes I read it, although he still comes to the conclusion that a STA of 72-74.5 will be best for most riders.

My bike has a STA of 73.5 and my simple maths says that by reversing the seatpost I've moved the seat position forward by 2°, so I'm already at about 75.5° before I even start trying other angles.

Orbea sizing is weird. I ride a 54cm Onix 105 which I'm sure I read somewhere is effectively a 57cm. I'm 6'2" with a 33 inseam. On paper it should be too small for me, but it's actually really comfortable with a 110mm stem. Great bikes, I love mine - I'm upgrading the wheelset soon

Sheldon Brown posted an essay about KOPS by Keith Bontrager many years ago. Makes for an interesting read, you may or may not find it illuminating.

Yeah I was going to mention that.
http://sheldonbrown.com/kops.html

Not sure if this place is new, but Cadence in Crystal Palace do a standard bike fit for £65.
Just wondering if it's worth it or if this something you could probably do yourself at this level.

http://www.cadenceperformance.com/services/bike-fitting/?gclid=CLzF99_BwK8CFUkMtAodPVkyxA

Good shout. I've added it to the list: http://www.lfgss.com/thread60484.html

It doesn't really say what you get on the basic one though.... maybe it's a way to get you in to get you to choose the £170150 one.

Yes it does seem geared to pointing you towards the expensive one.
If it had more info on the basic then I'd probably go. Who uses the phone any more?
Anyone used them?

Just come back from the bike whisperer. omg forgot all you know about bike fitting and go see him. he is simply amazing and after 5 hours of fitting my bike and riding has been transformed. not cheap but so so worth it! Great coffee as well... seriously this guy is the don. dont be put off by the price the only downside is he is so busy i had to wait 2 months to see him! Thanks scherrit a miracle has been performed

I cycled to Rotterdam and back this weekend and during its course developed some serious back and knee pain, making the 2nd half of the ride thoroughly tortuous. I've tinkered with my bike adjusting saddle bars etc etc using the online guides. I am now accepting that I can't get it right by myself, so I've booked a fit with the Bike Whisperer. As with splutter above, 2 month waiting time, but hopefully it will change my world like it has done for so many others. 200 quid is a fair bit of cash but frankly, I don't want to experience this sort of pain ever again so I don't really give a damn.

I'll report back when I've had it

I'm seeing Bike Whisperer in a week or two. I'm a little bummed out though as my soul weekend roadie (80s steel pinarello) is a little worse for wear following a harsh winter and a crash. I hope I'm not trying to make a silk purse of a sow's ear by getting fitted to it. The data is obviously transferable when I have the funds for an upgrade.

sorry to hear that you've had an off.

If you feel like postponing your appointment to say, june 23rd, let me know, and we can swap ;)

Na man I'm in there like swimwear. My hangups about bike etc aren't going anywhere before June. Sorry :)

If you want to know more about bike fitting then go to the Steve Hogg website . Scherrit is one his approved fitters.

They are also giving away his DVD with one of the fitness cycle magazines just not, though I think its only available in Waitrose..

BTW - Steve does not work by formulas...

The Dave Moulton bike fit chart - is also ,I find, worth a look.