Time Trial / Time Trialling / TT

Sharland? Just enter a hilly race.

Ha! Yeah we'd be about matched on w/kg then.

Post 15319
"I'd only do it for myself"

A very noble attitude, but this was not the way people thought back in the golden days of record breaking. I think we need to consider some history here.

Let's go back to one of my favourite characters - Marcel Planes. He won the 1911 'Century Competition' with 33,200 miles in the year, which was the record (see photo below). This competition was run by Cycling (as the magazine was then known) which naturally gave it a lot of publicity. Journalism and bike racing are inextricably linked - look who started the Tour de France.

Marcel was unsponsored, as he had to be since the competition was specifically amateur. It's amazing that he managed to do the rides that he did since he was, for much of the time, literally penniless. Towards the end of the year he gave a testimonial to Hutchinson Tyres for which he doubtless received some (hard earned) payment.
This led to a terrible row in 1912 which saw him drummed out of his club for professionalism and, shamefully in my opinion, excluded from cycling club life until he joined the Veteran-Cycle Club in 1955, which didn't care about this sort of thing.

The relevance of this is that between the wars record breaking was the only outlet for professionals in Britain as all racing was strictly amateur. But we still had an industry, which not only made bikes, but profits! Furthermore it was convinced, on no good evidence, that it was the best in the world.

The industry could afford, and saw fit, to pay a few elite riders to go for records on the grounds that it made good copy for adverts, and where would these ads appear? Well, obviously in 'Cycling'. So the magazine had an interest, an obligation really, to give plenty of publicity to record attempts. Examples are Frank Southall (Hercules), Sid Ferris (Raleigh)
Marguerite Wilson (Claud Butler). It's interesting that there was then no way back into amateur racing, no possibility of redemption (although this came in the 1960's) so it was a huge, career ending commitment. In fact I believe that the people behind this rigid pro/am distinction actually brought amateurism into disrepute which has contributed to the unsatisfactory situation existing today.

Just suppose we had a significant cycle industry today - I'm confident the police would be more than happy to marshal record aspirants through town centres.

So I see the problem now as being lack of financial interest rather than the impossibility of
breaking records. How could this be overcome? Find powerful sponsors (may be possible, but I certainly don't know how) or look for obscure regional records that could still be broken. (Barnet to Bedford?)

A final note: skinny recognises that Phil Griffiths' 1977 record looks unbeatable and it may well be: Phil was a very talented rider. However, speeds generally have gone up significantly since that time, so let's not give up hope.

1 Attachment

An after thought:

It's amusing that the French publication from which this picture of Marcel was taken wants to claim the recordman as French: et est donc Francais.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll be on my nest behaviour, although I'm cycling/train there and back. Also once in my skinsuit I will not be able to pee in anyone's garden.

If we all went by train and bike there would be far less of a problem.

If we all went by train and bike there would be far less of a problem

Except on the train; the service to Bentley is hourly, so you'd be looking at 30 bikes on each train assuming an even split between directions.

Surely there is an HQ that can be used at the Farnham end of the course, with a route to the start laid out in the start sheet to ensure minimal riding on the course.

Just suppose we had a significant cycle industry today - I'm confident the police would be more than happy to marshal record aspirants through town centres.

So I see the problem now as being lack of financial interest rather than the impossibility of
breaking records. How could this be overcome? Find powerful sponsors (may be possible, but I certainly don't know how) or look for obscure regional records that could still be broken. (Barnet to Bedford?)

With the best will in the world, you're not going to get rolling road closures through city centres. Those records are from a different era and don't really have too much meaning now.

The way forward would be to start again. Pick start/finish points just outside of city centres eg Brum - London, start Moseley (Brum), finish Barnet (London). Drum up support from Time Trialists and Ultracyclists, follow the template set up by TCR and IPWR

I have no knowledge of potential HQ's in Farnham, but I can tell you that cyclists are no longer welcome at the village hall in Froyle which was an alternative to Bentley.

As you may be aware The Hounslow is promoting the National 100 Championship on the course this year. The HQ will be the Alton leisure centre, but this will cost getting on for a thousand pounds, so this is clearly not practical for a normal event.

With the best will in the world, we're not likely to get a significant cycle industry either.

What you say about changing start and finish points is well worth pursuing. In fact the Barnet/Bedford record would need modification since a small section of the Bedford end is pedestrianised. There has at least been some discussion about this, with the suggestion that the route might divert onto the ring road for an equivalent distance so that the length of the course was the same as the old record, thus making a new performance comparable. Please note that nothing definite has been agreed about this, but the idea is in line with the suggestion in the post above.

As I said yesterday in post 15353, journalism and bike racing are inextricably linked. So for me the 'story' that may come from a record must be at the front of our minds. London to York - who doesn't think of Dick Turpin? I'm not saying this is still a practical record, but it has an obvious appeal as a story before you even touch on the cycling history.

This is the problem with the RRA suggestion of circuit records: you can find a convenient circuit, but how on earth are you going to make anyone interested in it?

Surely the appeal of place to place is a combination of the demonstration that these journeys can be made on a bike and fairly quickly at that, plus the history of the record with the rider making the attempt competing against some famous name from the past. Who wouldn't want to ride against Ray Booty, Phil Griffiths or Ian Cammish if they thought they could beat them (which, with modern speeds, they might)?

So perhaps what we need is to modify courses where it is deemed essential, but only in such a way that the public (both cycling and general) can relate the new record to what was done in the past.

Many courses are basically unreachable by train as services don't run early enough.

They use the sports club? as a HQ for the 12hr. It has more parking.

I apologise for not making myself clearer on the train question; I wasn't making a suggestion, but trying to be ironic.

They're already done similar with LEJOG

The roads change and I think they have a new finish because you can no longer ride all the way to the hotel wall or something at the top.

The routes are basically along motorways now though so without follow vehicles, training for them is quite a stressful exercise. With Mike's death weighing on my mind, personally, I'm even less inclined to do this kind of thing again.

Sorry, I'm a bit tired. My humour/irony/sarcasm detection unit is extremely ineffective at the moment.

I believe the LEJOG route has been changed several times over the years.

It has, yes. Apart from many roundabouts and town centre alterations there's bridges cutting corners on the coast in Scotland (there is a new road on Helmsdale which is about 1 mile SHORTER than before) as well as the finish line (The old finish line at JoG is no longer there. The old hotel is now private flats. The new finish point is the leading edge of the mini roundabout about 68 yards BEFORE what was the old front door.). John Taylor's LEJOG book goes through some of the course change details in documenting the attempts over the years.

Theyso use the sports club? as a HQ for the 12hr. It has more parking.

It costs £xxxx, so won't work for the average 10 or 25

I see.

Is it private? If no one else uses it that time of day perhaps they could do a deal?

So the principle of course modification has been accepted in the past and goes back long before the current problems started making things so difficult.

This seems to set the stage open for a new round of modifications.

I don't know that many peeps in RRA. Once I'm done with TABR and TCR this year perhaps I'll revisit some of the records and have a think about possibilities, maybe mention course modification to RRA.

Anyone else doing the Catford CC Q10/19 on Saturday? Happy to drive someone down there. It might help me stay awake for the 6:49 start time.

The routes are basically along motorways now though so without follow vehicles, training for them is quite a stressful exercise. With Mike's death weighing on my mind, personally, I'm even less inclined to do this kind of thing again.

I was a bit nervy on my clubs first evening 10 of the year last night. Dual carriageway course and lots of close passes from vehicles travelling at high speed. Probably an easter hols thing I guess, more traffic in the evening than during a working week.
Anyway, would hate to do ride on those kind of roads for any distance.

I spent 6+ months doing just that (on top of the normal TTing I was doing) and by mid-year I was going slower and pretty fucking stressed out. It was likely a combination of things but the busy roads with constant risky passes from arsehole drivers can't have helped my nerves, no matter how fearless/hardcore I claim to be.