Some useful notes from Australian Sprint Cycling Coach

"What do you mean by complex, expensive and lonely training options?"

Playing computer games on rollers in a shed.

;o)

I'm still hurtin' from the quad circumference measurements.. ;)

Get down the gym more ;-)

That's my only consolation.. I don't do weights.. :)

on-road training - have been done circuit training with BMF much of the last couple of months, very good for aerobic fitness and upper body strength. Now moving to the bike, doing hill reps, cadence training, fast starts and a longer ride once a week.

my training ground is here - Greenwich Park - which is on my way home from work. there is a c.750 metre flat, safe (ish) road and a long, straight hill.

on-road training - have been done circuit training with BMF much of the last couple of months, very good for aerobic fitness and upper body strength. Now moving to the bike, doing hill reps, cadence training, fast starts and a longer ride once a week.

my training ground is here - Greenwich Park - which is on my way home from work. there is a c.750 metre flat, safe (ish) road and a long, straight hill.

can you be a bit more specific as to what you mean by these ta.

Here ya go dino.. resplendent in useful detail :)

1. Riding up the same hill a few times
   
2. Pedaling faster than normal
   
3. Starting faster than normal
   

there is always one isnt there..........................

he ain't too far wrong though!

I have my road/commute bike set up the same as my race bike, but with a 48/18 gear.

Hill training is about recovery - 5x ish, short time (60 secs) between reps, final effort to exhaustion.

Cadence is, yeah, spinning the 48/18 for c. 30 secs - 1 min max cadence. Hip flexors not enjoying that at the minute.

Starts are standing start to max cadence, and repeat.

Longer rides focus on circular pedalling action, upping 'natural' cadence.

How does that sound?

sounds pretty good, things I would add/change would be, remove the starts and put in down hill sprints, starts have no real relevance unless your a dedicated sprinter.

Alternate the hill work with some longer intervals say between 3-5 mins with a couple of mins easy spinning between and do these on a big gear eg race gear or slightly above, easiest to do these on a turbo but i get the feeling you dont like those :-)

Are you using a power meter, dino?

yeah i have one

Do you do regular testing with it and if so which test protocol do you use and why?
I don't know what events you ride but are you concerned more with FTP or max power PBs for shorter time periods?

I am a sprinter, do a bit of track league for fun but its not what i am aiming at, use the srm's as a tool to see progression and help me choose gearing/equipment and also as a training aid to know when i am cooked.

apart from banning me having a discussion of how to do on-road track training and racing - ie the type that people actually might do -

don't start twisting it, that's not true.

I locked a thread about commuter racing because it gets enough discussion on the main forum. (and bike gayday and cycle chat) I apologize to those that think boasting about who you may or may not have overtaken down the embankment on your way to work constitutes useful training advice.

However, we have lots of discussion about on road training for track with plenty of info, which you have contributed to. you've certainly never been "banned" for anything.

I will delete threads that are not relevant to this sub forum, you are free to post what you like in the main forums, that's kind of the idea of sub forums. Threads about commuting would go in the "general" category.

I am a sprinter, do a bit of track league for fun but its not what i am aiming at, use the srm's as a tool to see progression and help me choose gearing/equipment and also as a training aid to know when i am cooked.

Gotcha.

Need to find a cheap SRM for my coach :)

Cheers dino - what are "down hill sprints"?

I put in the standing starts cos I found myself not being able to get up to speed fast enough on lap 1 sometimes - not enough to catch up with sneaky b*ggers that try to nab a 3 lap race by putting the hammer down in the first 100m ...

RPM, no worries. a big whatever. what i said was that the embankment was a surprisingly safe place to have fast sprint races and I asked where else the same could be said. I think you brought a diva's supply of baggage to that debate so maybe we should just leave it there ;o)

High or low gear, high cadence sprints down hill (I did both versions in Melb - one session would be high gear, high speed and the other session would be low gear, high rpm).

Cheers dino - what are "down hill sprints"?

Sounds like ***overspeed ***stuff. Gravity can take you places your muscles alone cannot.

Cheers dino - what are "down hill sprints"?

I put in the standing starts cos I found myself not being able to get up to speed fast enough on lap 1 sometimes - not enough to catch up with sneaky b*ggers that try to nab a 3 lap race by putting the hammer down in the first 100m ...

RPM, no worries. a big whatever. what i said was that the embankment was a surprisingly safe place to have fast sprint races and I asked where else the same could be said. I think you brought a diva's supply of baggage to that debate so maybe we should just leave it there ;o)

in my experience most of the time people get left behind at the start of a race its not down to starting speed, its due to not being switched on and bunch placement, just make sure you line up first on the fence and stay alert and that should solve it.

Down hill sprints just as the others have said, use gravity to take you into over speed, so you can experience high rpms and actual speeds with out killing yourself just accelerating up to them.

I might also start slow because of the "oh sh*t, this is going to hurt" factor!

Another starting 'issue' is insufficient warmup.
If you've not warmed properly and you suddenly find yourself under attack your (well, my) legs will fail.

Down hill sprints just as the others have said, use gravity to take you into over speed, so you can experience high rpms and actual speeds with out killing yourself just accelerating up to them.

living at the bottom of a hill helps with this no end.

I'm as skinny as hippy is fat ;)

Not that I'm paranoid or anything, but I just calculated my BMI here and it was 22.1. That's actually in the upper half (just) of my recommended weight zone. So ner.

I hit 30 at one point, and dipped under 10% body fat for a short while. Oh, those where the days, oh the pain.

My point was that having a discussion about riding on the road shouldn't be off-limits. Yeah, boasting along the lines of 'yeah, i overtook some granny on a shopper' is asinine, but finding that you've got into a friendly bit of sprinting with someone else who's evidently up for it and got some good exercise out of it is hardly out of place - after all, as someone mentioned somewhere (not sure it was this thread), it's surprising what you find you can do when you're on the track and competing with other people. It's about having the stimulus to push it a little harder than you would on your own.

Not directed at Lee at all - I've found your advice to be very good, cheers.

Personally I spend quite a lot of time in the gym because my ride to work is too short. Once it gets a bit warmer I'll probably spend more time on the road and less on the exercise bike, and just stop in the gym to do some strength work and stretches and have a shower. One mate finds it odd that I've spent so much time on the bike in the gym this winter, but I've been able to do intervals and cadence training there in a very focused way in a limited amount of time that I'd have to ride a bit out of town to do - my part of town is full of crappy drivers and traffic lights, and not so many hills. And as a result of the gym work I'm a lot faster and my endurance is better. Diff'rent strokes, as the sitcom had it. Hell, I did a spinning session down the gym one week with a bunch of randoms and they all thought I was a nutter because of the cadence I was doing. I thought it was quite fun!

Anyway, in a nutshell it was the comment 'do your racing on the track' that I found a bit pretentious. It isn't open yet! So in the meantime, let's get our training in whichever way works for us, and compare notes to see if we can learn owt from t'others!

Back on the topic - definitely agree on the overspeed thing. Found that the static bike work helped me get a smooth enough cadence at high revs to get the most out of that, though - back on the road I am now finding myself cranking up to speeds on a 71" gear that I used only to be able to get on 80" gear. Ditto the intervals, I think the better your ability to recover, the better-placed you are to be able to jostle for positions in a bunch.

Re the Hoy/Kenny thing - I can't find the Olympic final online, but this'll do.

YouTube - Masters of Sprint 2009 final Chris Hoy vs. Jason Kenny

First race, Kenny leads out. Keeps the pace low, keeps close to Hoy, cranks it up at the end and it's only in the last straight that Hoy pushes past him and finishes first.

Second race, Hoy leads out. Keeps pace higher from outset, keeps Kenny well behind and is already cranking up when the bell rings. Kenny can't catch up.

Both are clearly playing to their strengths. Kenny's acceleration means he can contend with Hoy on a short sharp sprint, but Hoy's stamina and higher top speed means Kenny can't catch up with him on a longer haul.