Are OTPs approaching custom standards?

Granted, some OTPs get laughed at, as they deserve.

But some OTPs are really moving the goal-posts.

The photos below are of OTPs.

Are they getting there? .......Or will never get there?

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This is your most controversial thread to date.

I am a fan of your work.

condor classico pista is 699 for the frame set alone, but i would definetly get one if i had the money.

i prefer last year model with straight forks though

The Condor Classico Pista, I think I remember someone saying that for the money it's a lots for a standard tubing bike whether you could easily get a nice Merican with 631 or better tubing for the price.

well if mercian can make me a frame with the exact same geometry (i love the super tight clearances) ill be hitting them up instead

wait till u see my mercian!

They've yet to make a so called 'women-specific' OTP (as far as I know) (why does that phrase sound so weird?)

Bring it on. So I can insult it.

I need to be commuting to work on that Jamis Sonik.

Does it have fittings for a rear rack?

I think you will always get more 'bang for ya buck' with an OTP. If you can find one with the component mix and colour scheme you're after that is.

Granted, some OTPs get laughed at, as they deserve.

But some OTPs are really moving the goal-posts.

The photos below are of OTPs.

Are they getting there? .......Or will never get there?

They seem to be getting there by selling higher end fixed bikes. If there is a market they will fill it, just as the road bikemarket sells bikes for £5000.

They will never quite get there as custom by its nature mean you have chosen all the parts doesn't it? Even a £5000 OTP fixed bike would not have the exact choice of parts that someone would personally choose when custom building. (although the quality could not be questioned!)

Are they getting there? .......Or will never get there?

As I see it, yes

The OTP's always get a very negative response, but there are definitely some pretty decent ones out there. I think you need to be prepared to change a few minor parts around to get exactly what you're after, but you get way more for your money. It's usually cheaper to buy an OTP and customise it rather than starting from scratch.

Are there any definite "No's" for OTP track bikes other than the unipacks?

i put together a wicked salad last week. then i realised that the ingredients for two people cost me £18. which got me thinking that FTR (from the restaurant) may well be the way to go in future. i've never paid over £9 for a salad before i don't think.

I'm a massive fan of this years Classico Pista and am giving some serious thought to splashing the cash in a few months, but at that price range the custom option is very tempting as well. I can see me having fun with a custom build (not having done it before) but the Condor is just the balls.

The Condor Classico Pista, I think I remember someone saying that for the money it's a lots for a standard tubing bike whether you could easily get a nice Merican with 631 or better tubing for the price.

Looks to be Deda SAT 14.5, is 631 better than that? The average weight for the frame is claimed to be 1600g which is light for steel and it is also triple butted.
Guess the price is similar to Mercian as paying for Italian labour is same as paying for UK labour.

i put together a wicked salad last week. then i realised that the ingredients for two people cost me £18

Jeeeeeez!!! What did you have? Details please...
Re: OP... I think OTPs are deffo getting better...

It depends what you mean by 'getting there'.

There are lots of great OTP's and more appearing every week it seems, and the parts on the higher end ones are really good. Maybe not exactly the spec each person would choose individually, but not really much you could criticise and probably at a price most people couldn't better new. As with an OTP MTB or road bike there is nothing wrong with them at all.

On the other hand, because so much of the [gritted teeth] fixie scene [/gritted teeth] has evolved around customising and building it yourself, an OTP will always been seen as not quite good enough - whatever the quality of parts - by some people.

For me - those^^ are pretty nice. What I don't like is the charge freestyler / felt curbside - where an OTP is aping a custom look. That mings.

whoever suggested OTPs aren't as good, performance-wise? the langster (which i would argue epitomises OTP) has always been light, comfortable and reliable. But it isn't pretty, unique or cool enough for those wishing to be considered part of the gang.

i personally think there's something really appealing about getting something half decent OTP, not changing anything and just riding it. if it gets stolen so what? just get another one on the insurance. i'm pretty sure that if i was getting a road or mountain bike i'd get one OTP. I think there's too much snobbery amongst those riding fixed.

i'd happily ride any of those bikes (except maybe the label-licious jamis)

I really like that Jamis... I'd powdercoat it to fuck if it was mine tho'... Hey presto, instant custom! ;]

People are missing the whole point of custom anything if they choose it based solely on performance.
It isn't just about the performance...the paint...the features...the customisation.
People like to know that the product they have just bought, be it a frame, a bag, a suit, whatever, has been made just for them by somebody who lives and breathes what they do....somebody who is as passionate about what they create as you are about what you ride or wear.
It's nice to be able to picture somebody standing there covered in metal shavings or little bits of fluffy cotton....working with meticulous attention to detail...sipping tea inbetween welds or seams....it's nice to be able to talk one to one about what you want....nice to be able shake the persons hand when you pick the end result up from them.
You just don't get that same warm feeling inside from buying a bike or bag that has been made on some production line in some far off country.
Maybe i'm wrong and just get too caught up in the whole process....but i just love knowing that the thing i'm buying has been made from start to finish by a human being...just like me.
THAT is one of the biggest appeals of going custom for me...not just the performance of the finished product.

Sigh.....:)

Now back to these fucking bags....god i hate my life

People are missing the whole point of custom anything if they choose it based solely on performance.
It isn't just about the performance...the paint...the features...the customisation.
People like to know that the product they have just bought, be it a frame, a bag, a suit, whatever, has been made just for them by somebody who lives and breathes what they do....somebody who is as passionate about what they create as you are about what you ride or wear.
It's nice to be able to picture somebody standing there covered in metal shavings or little bits of fluffy cotton....working with meticulous attention to detail...sipping tea inbetween welds or seams....it's nice to be able to talk one to one about what you want....nice to be able shake the persons hand when you pick the end result up from them.
You just don't get that same warm feeling inside from buying a bike or bag that has been made on some production line in some far off country.
Maybe i'm wrong and just get too caught up in the whole process....but i just love knowing that the thing i'm buying has been made from start to finish by a human being...just like me.
THAT is one of the biggest appeals of going custom for me...not just the performance of the finished product.

Sigh.....:)

Now back to these fucking bags....god i hate my life

Agree if we are talking about custom made frames. I was maybe misreading 'custom' as just a bike that has been put together with a group of parts that you have chosen, the frame could well be of the mass produced kind.

I totally agree with what Scot's saying, It's wonderful to know that there is something unique that is only yours. Whilst it's probably easier with a custom build (from a cheap conversion up to a handbuilt frame), you can still get that feel with an OTP. I bought my Charge because I wanted to ride straight away, and now Im slowly customising it for a way I like to ride. Realistically, I only bought the frame to build up myself. It just so happened that it came with all the other components attached for instant riding.

I think it's really less to do with how good it is, more to do with value for money really.

I'm a massive fan of this years Classico Pista and am giving some serious thought to splashing the cash in a few months, but at that price range the custom option is very tempting as well. I can see me having fun with a custom build (not having done it before) but the Condor is just the balls.

well, it would be pretty much custom, as you could spec the build how yoiu want, plus you'd be measured for it etc... stock frame, but so what?