Which Groupset?

It's a real shame Campag are going backwards, although Shimano/Sram users seem happy enough with basic shifting.

I dont see it that way. They just had a load of groups clogging up the high end, and could'nt compete in the middle. So they evened out the slope of the hierarcy.

I've built two bikes with 2011 veloce and it definitely shifts up 3 cogs at a time. You just need to throw the lever further, or there's something wrong with your setup.

Thats what I thought.

I'm looking to remove my current 6600SL setup for something smoother (in shifting and cable routing!) budget around £500 wondering red/force/DA. Hmmm

You wont get any top tier groupset for that money. You might get Ultegra though which is really good especially if you ditch the ugly cranks for something blingy-er

Depends on what you need.

You could get 8pc force, or Ultegra. But if you're upgrading you could probably find a 3 pc Red /DA on EBay for close to £500.

umm why would you want to shift 3-5 gears at a time ?
are you going from the flat to a 1:1 gradient in millseconds ?

If you have short thumbs, being able to continue down the cassette, while in the drops, using the thumb shifter, is vital.

Agreed. I used single-shift Veloce for a while and got used to it, but when you're in the drops you soon get sick of the limitations of this kind of shifting. On the other hand it isn't a problem on Shimano with their more readily-accessible paddle.

umm why would you want to shift 3-5 gears at a time ?
are you going from the flat to a 1:1 gradient in millseconds ?

The only time I find I use multiple shifts in one lever throw these days is when changing rings on the front - sometimes being able to go 2 down or up is useful to keep cadence smooth. When I first got Record 10 (and I was [more] rubbish at climbing) I would use it to dump gears all the time when i died on a hill. These days I try to keep things pre-emptive.

Anyone have any experience with putting modern 10/11 speed gruppos on older steel frames with 126 rear spacing? I want to keep the frame if possible but then kit it out and money is not so much an issue as I get a very good discount. I'm open to suggestions. Is this a complete waste of time as I should just get a new bike?

Two things:

1. if your rear spacing is 126, you should be able to get a 130 spaced wheel in there with some effort.

2. I remember reading (I think on sheldon brown) that 11 spd is not such a good idea if you do the above, as the chain may rub the frame in the smallest sprocket.. May be wrong about that.

I'm > | < this close to converting my Merckx (126mm rear) from 7 spd shimano to 10 speed Veloce..

umm why would you want to shift 3-5 gears at a time ?
are you going from the flat to a 1:1 gradient in millseconds ?

When you have it, you use it.

I find it useful to go up or down a couple after shifting the front.

Also: trim on the front is really good.

In other news: has anyone tried matching up Campagnolo 10sp shifters with a SRAM drivetrain? According to Zinn, it works. But I'm a little sceptical.

umm why would you want to shift 3-5 gears at a time ?
are you going from the flat to a 1:1 gradient in millseconds ?

Usually its a case of doing it in one throw, but not actually all at once.

When I'm building into a bit of a sprint. I keep my thumb on the shifter and click through the cassette as I accelerate.

I do find I need to dump 3 gears while climbing quite alot. But then I'm not exactly cycling around a city park.

I've built two bikes with 2011 veloce and it definitely shifts up 3 cogs at a time. You just need to throw the lever further, or there's something wrong with your setup.

It was with a problem solver cable pull changing thing and a 8sp shimano mech. Probably not a great setup to draw any sort of conclusions from TBH.

.
What's the issue with power torque? Isn't it just a version of what Shimano/Sram have been doing and cheaper than ultra torque to make accurately?

Yes - except they forgot to use a self extracting crank bolt. You need an 'automotive bearing puller' to remove the cranks for cleaning. It's jokes.

Could you not just give it some encouragement with a rubber mallet?

Yeah, probably. But why on earth should you have to?

Depends on what you need.

You could get 8pc force, or Ultegra. But if you're upgrading you could probably find a 3 pc Red /DA on EBay for close to £500.

this.

It will prolly be used though and being a giant you'd need 175 cranks which will make the search harder.

I'm keeping my fugly (but light) cranks if i go 3pc

also 3pc red on fudges: £530 new

Really?

Balls I thought that meant chainset too.

Old one though I presume?

Buy the new 3pc then! Problem solved

also 3pc red on fudges: £530 new

You dont' need (or want) the Red front derailleur though do you?

You should be getting very smooth shifting (by any standards) with 6600.
There were even a few moans about 6700's shifting when it came out (mostly sorted with cable routing though I think).

Are the cables (either inners or outers) old?

I'm > | < this close to converting my Merckx (126mm rear) from 7 spd shimano to 10 speed Veloce..

My (now Claira's) Merckx with 126mm rear wouldn't fit a 10spd SRAM cassette in, smallest sprocket was hitting the seatstay. Be warned.

The Red FD is fine now they have a steel cage version. The rings are shite though.

I binned getting 2012 Red due to the dependency on the Red cranks/rings.

I've binned it after finding out it won't hit the SRAM industry buy program for another 12 months.