Which Groupset?

Major damage comes when 11 speed chain is on a 10 speed sprocket, it wears out much quicker that way.

How? they work fine, it's more the other way round that's the problem.

I even had a 11 speed chain on a 6 speed bike and it work OK.

Riddle me this: if you take one 4700 group and swap out the shifters, chain and cassette for 5800, does that an 11sp groupset make?

Cannot confirm if the 4700 rear derailleur have the same cable pull as 5800 et all.

This suggests it is so, which would also scupper my plans to use 4700 with a MTB/non-dyn-sys rear mech, unless the new road pull ratio also happens to be the same as dyn-sys now, but that seems like it would be far too much of a happy coincidence.

edit: a bit more poking around suggests that 4700 does indeed have the same cable pull as 5800, meaning it's not suitable for MTB component hybrid setups.

Anyone care to proof read another hypothetical setup?

10 speed sram levers
wide range MTB casette possibly this
Sram MTB derailleur
Shimano hub
HY/RD brakes

Unless I've missed something this sounds like it should work and hopefully be the most straightforward setup.

Gevenalle

Thought about it, no shifting from drops, which are far more highly used on dirt-drops.

Chorus mechanical.

Fucking Potenza fucking 14mm Allen key fucking 60 fucking dollars fucking fuck.

wut?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/KS-Tools-151-2032-CLASSIC-wrench/dp/B001NYV3Q2/ref=sr_1_5?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1487245468&sr=1-5&keywords=14mm+allen

or

http://www.workshopping.co.uk/product/draper-14mm-hexagon-3/8-square-drive-drain-plug-key/38327/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shop&utm_campaign=feed&gclid=Cj0KEQiAuJXFBRDirIGnpZLE-N4BEiQAqV0KGuD2e4Fi6Xug4i7xSQ2bPDx4UnkjU8zw5HvFv6v7WUgaAjZf8P8HAQ

… because ordering one for cheap off the interwebs isn't a great option when your bike is in pieces and unrideable and it takes a fortnight for anything to arrive in the post.

do you live in australia?

Yes.

user error then

Fucking stupid bolt size choice error.

tbf they actually simplified it compared to what it was before

60 fucking dollars fucking fuck.

But she love you long time...

Or $22 from Bunnings:

https://www.bunnings.com.au/bondhus-14mm-short-tagged-l-wrench-hex-key_p6110534

… which would have been great, had Bunnings had one.

Campagnolo - making bottom brackets and cranks overly complex to maintain since 2007.

Ultra torque is dead easy to maintain and Power torque isn't beyond the scope of the home mechanic either.

Still, from the first bicycle company that adopted the self extracting bolt on square taper it was a scandal that it took them so long to fit one on their Power torque (when one will actually make a big difference)

Ultra torque is dead easy to mantain I agree.

I had no problem removing my Powertorque crankset. Used an angle grinder to cut the NDS crank into slices. Only way it was coming off - I'd already trashed one puller trying to get it to move, and that was with a 4 foot breaker bar.

Still, from the first bicycle company that adopted the self extracting bolt on square taper it was a scandal that it took them so long to fit one on their Power torque (when one will actually make a big difference)

Yes agreed it did seem to be an unnecessary design choice especially when a simple cinch bolt on the non driveside would have worked.

In my mind a bicycle should be fixable on the roadside or at the next little village you come to.
So what I would tell the incumbent Mr. Campagnolo is don't try to be a clever dick, just design nice products that are held together with regular bolts, screws fixings etc no exotic tools and make your chainrings with standard BCD ffs!

Seems like he is screwing up (no pun intended) a great brand as things stand.