Which Groupset?

Are group set fanboys as dogmatic about which brand of car, computer or breakfast cereal they buy?

Yes. There is a universal but depressing human tendency to elevate subjective preferences and beliefs to objective truth and then claim that anyone who doesn't share a particular but entirely individual set of values is 'wrong'. For the ultimate expression of this particular strain of human idiocy, consider the history of all major institutional religions.

@dancing james and his monotonously dull, pointless and predictable trolling comes second.

I enjoyed this rant. Would read again. I also agree.

I don't like the wobbly brake lever and although admittedly Ultegra is a lot more precise than Tiagra and even 105 (haven't used DA), I prefer SRAM to the lot. Better pivot position for braking too.

Mechanical DA is crazy precise.
Di2 is just a pleasure to use. So easy.
Campy is super fast. Has absolutely the best multishift action.
I dont have much experiance With Sram road. But love the MTB stuff.

Surely Campag have fucked up by not doing enough to encourage manufacturers to use their groupsets on enough entry level bikes in the last few years.

Most new cyclists (ie people who will be buying bikes and groupsets for the next 40 years) have used Shimano or Sram and realised it works really, really well and are then reluctant to switch across.

That's how I come to be a Shimano user and I won't switch now unless something drastic happens. Just wish Shimano would make some sexy chainsets.

Nicely put.

The ways in which Campag fucked up are many and varied but IMHO ultimately boil down to:

1. Bollocking up their only MTB groupset, then giving up on MTB groupsets at all, thereby putting themselves out of a substantial chunk of the market.

2. Deciding not to bother with OEM stuff, and only doing top-end groupsets aimed at individual buyers, thereby targeting a vanishingly small section of the market.

3. Resting on their laurels and giving up on the tradition for innovation which good ol' Tulio had started all those years before. Can you think of any technical innovation which Campagnolo have got to the market before Shimano or SRAM? I can't.

Surely Campag have fucked up

You make it sound like they had a choice. They're quite a traditional family business rather than a floated company, therefore operate as such. They're been heading for an increasingly niche market for decades.

Can you think of any technical innovation which Campagnolo have got to the market before Shimano or SRAM? I can't.

You mean in the last few years?

11sp road groups, multiple up-shifts, 2:1 laced wheels, cassettes costing more than hatchbacks... er...

Pwopah sexeh

Might be family owned but workers are striking as they plan to move all production to Romania...
http://road.cc/content/news/141525-campagnolo-strike-threat-1-5-jobs-cut-vicenza-hq

Multiple up-shifts I'll give you. 11sp was just a logical progression of the existing trend towards moah gearz. 2:1 laced wheels is an innovation, but I wouldn't say it's a groupset innovation. Overpriced cassettes? A marketing rather than technological innovation.

I like Campag stuff, and I'd be sorry to see them go out of business. But given the increasingly narrow niche they've backed themselves into over the years, and given the economies of scale they seem to have deliberately given up on, I'm not sure their survival is assured.

http://www.headsetpress.co.uk/feature/shimano-bicycle-museum/

Campy’s G3 lacing pattern is a triplet pattern with the spokes gouped together instead of being spread out at equal distances. Campy claims to have invented the 2:1 lacing pattern in 2001 and patanted it. They did not invent this! This pattern has been around since the early 1900’s! Ford was using this lacing pattern to compensate for extreme disch on the model A wheels. Hi-e wheels was using this pattern in the 70’s, Roval wheels was doing it in the 80’s, Dave Thomas (Speed Dream wheels) was doing it in the late 80’s and I built my first triplet wheel in 95.

https://ligerowheels.wordpress.com/2007/01/11/triplet-or-21-lacing-patterns/

The irony is there's loads of cheap labour in Italy.

I don't think they can have a patent on 2:1 or they'd be rich from all the Shimano wheelsets sold which use it.

Well, they're clearly not finding it.

I'm not saying they have it patented I'm saying it wasn't their innovation. I remember my mate's old man custom drilling a set of wheels with a similar pattern when I was a kid. Before Rolf or G3 stuff was around.

What was the original question/bait?

^^ That was Tullio.

He probably planted some grape vines too.

"Which Groupset?"

Yeah but Ultegra down are at best dull and at worst dreadful.

Shimano.

The only one that really was fugly was the 7900 cranks. I quite like the current series..

People will whinge that you are trolling.