Which Groupset?

Would ultegra 6700 be a noticeable improvement on SRAM rival?

In my opinion - yes. Probably best to try it out though.

In my opinion no.

5700, 6700 both sloppy in terms of shifting and braking. Rival punches far above its weight.

In fairness though front shifting is gooooood. But who ever does that?

where does sram fit in? except for Red being 'lightest groupset in pro peleton'?
Value = no
Ease of use = subjective but mostly no (DafuqTap)
Better design = no
Aesthetics = subjective/debatable
But mega hipster points

Filled the gap nicely in terms of ergonomics when Shimano utterly dropped the ball on 7900, 6700 and 5700.

As before, Rival is freakishly good value.

Some people aren't that turned on by the leccy stuff.

Looks good on almost any frame.

I honestly think that SRAM isn't all that.

I have 10spd Red on my BMC - braking is pretty spongy, shifts down the block are nice, shifts up are not, front ring shifting is OK. Levers feel OK, but the Rival shifters my GF has feel horrible and so cheap. I would probably take 5700 and definitely 6700 over that.

I liked Apex on my winter bike because even the coldest fingers can find the gear-shift paddle.

However, I've now moved (actually that's a lie, at some point I hope to have) a bad weather bike with Di2 that had a seperate shift button with nice large, frostbitten finger friendly buttons- crucially you can see them also, so gear changing with your chin would probably also be possible.

http://www.kinokocycles.com/sale/where/brand/sram.html

Seems to show you can get an apex group for £271, quite a bargain if it's all in stock no?

I totally maintain that when Campag is set up right, it's by far the best. But there are SO MANY REASONS not to have it that it becomes a bit of a pointless argument.

the interesting question is how do you rationalize something like a groupset? or you dont?

I'm not including electronic shifting in any of this. I've never ridden it and probably won't until it's the only option.

Di2 on a winter bike ffs...

Tibbs popped over with his bike a while ago and his front shifting (Red) was hugely better than mine (Apex), as in, the Red front shift was usable.

As I had a Force front mech I am led to the conclusion that it is the Apex shifter that is not so hot.

I'm not including electronic shifting in any of this. I've never ridden it and probably won't until it's the only option.

Di2 on a winter bike ffs...

Wait until you see it.

^ this

the interesting question is how do you rationalize something like a groupset? or you dont?

Like anything else with bikes - it's always a: cost / what's available when I need it / what I like / what I want / a smidgen of common sense decision.

Front shifting on Rival is appalling. Genuinely awful that they sell a 500 quid group with something so fundamentally wrong with it.

Wait until you see it.

I'm not saying it won't be nice, or that I'm not jealous you can throw that much money at a winter bike, but honestly..

Winter bike might be under-selling it, it's the bike I'll use in winter.

so it's a winter bike then? ;)

Ner ner ni ner ner

Front shifting on Rival is appalling. Genuinely awful that they sell a 500 quid group with something so fundamentally wrong with it.

Meh, wish you could have tried the Rival set-up on my CAAD7 - even with shitty FSA rings front shifting was effortless.

Tricky to set up though.

Reason i ask is that i have rival on my road bike, which was all going to go accross to my new frame but ive been thinkingit might be easier
To sell my current bike as a whole and ultegra might be the best price option

I have small hands and sram feels fine, and doubletap is also fine but shifting feels sloppy and doesnt feel as precise as other bikes
I hear around me

Small hands? Try out some 6700 shifters - they may be uncomfortably large.

If your Rival is feeling vague give it a good clean and change the cables.

Shimano have pretty much said publicly that 5700 / 6700 and 7900 were sub-par.

I'd go with Force if I wanted an upgrade.

Will swing by a bike shop and see if i can gove shimano a proper go, i think i need a new rd anyway to run a 32 cassette the new frame is fr cantis so the brakes are unused and i want a compact chainset so might be easier for me to just sell as a whole anyway

doubletap IS sloppy up the block, especially when you're moving more than one cog. It's nice down though. I miss all the clicks from campag

"Tricky to set up" doesn't begin to describe Rivals front mech! :)

I think that Shimano 57/67/7900 is probably the worst option if you have small hands (unless you get 7900 and use shims).

Also - I wouldn't say that any of those groups are sub par - could obviously be better and they fucked up the under tape cabling, but all good solid groups and DA is always excellent.

where does sram fit in? except for Red being 'lightest groupset in pro peleton'?
Value = no
Ease of use = subjective but mostly no (DafuqTap)
Better design = no
Aesthetics = subjective/debatable
But mega hipster points

Amey, this is bollucks. Why is ease of use mostly no? It couldn't be more simple to change gears. I've watched people shift on Shimano and Campag mechanical groups and it looks like a right pain. SRAM on the other hand is a breeze.

Design = no in what sense?

I'm not being a fan boy, I genuinely want to hear your reasoning, because don't get me wrong, I would love Di2.

Seems like you're being quite the Shimano fan boy though.