Running

Started prep in Feb, from base of 90 mins. Currently at 2h45 non stop runs, all day run/walk with breaks already possible. Will be debut race over 50miles by end Oct = 8 months prep, no intention of running whole distance though.

If you can't run past 2k then that is a general running question rather than an ultra question... however, for me (and obviously my experience only) distance running came in two phases.

I got into running because I got bullied into entering an Ironman when I'd never run more than 5k before. I spent a several years trying to build up the distance at a reasonable rate and dragging myself around marathon courses but was persistently dogged by knee injuries and mounting physio bills. FOR ME (deliberately shouty) the solution was a deliberate change to my running gate and footwear. From heel striking and various models of 'stability control' running shoe to mid/forefoot strike with semi-minimal/low heel drop shoes.

I don't really want to spark a big debate about fore/mid/heel strike, to me zealots at either end of the spectrum damage the discussion, but it worked for me. One thing I would say is that it took me about 2 years of deliberately transitioning through several different shoes and being super cautious about changing too quickly (e.g. I would often run 5k in normal shoes then switch to vibrams for the final 2k, and then gradually increase the distance). Still, I would say that I was mostly adapted to my new gait by about 2011 and other than a few niggles I've been essentially injury free since then.

WRT building up from IM/marathon distance to ultras, my view is to build up slowly. I simply got into a habit of running the following programme:

Monday: Rest
Tuesday: 10k
Wednesday: start at 10k build gradually to 22k
Thursday: 10k
Friday: Intervals
Weekend: back to back long runs starting at about 30k for the weekend and building towards about 85km over the weekend (split however you like but I liked 42/42 or 50/35).

Build the distance each week but listen to your body and build up in small increments. Take every 4th week off. In rest weeks I think I usually ran most days but at a very easy pace and never over 10k a day.

My first attempt at a 100miler I used this schedule over about 6months and dnf'd, although I did make it ~75miles and had done the first 50 in about 8 hours (waaaay faster than planned). My second attempt I probably ran a similar weekly volume in training but I worked less hard during each run and built up over 9 months instead.

All of this advice goes out of the window soon, as I'm currently averaging under 20km/week for 2016 and I have a marathon planned for October and then probably a 50 in spring... I'm hoping my body just remembers how to do it :-)

Thanks for the info & @rhb too! I would really like to run Endure 24 next year so wondering when my mental cut off point for that dream should be (or if I should just find another goal).

If you can't run past 2k then that is a general running question rather than an ultra question

Yeah I know, not looking for advice on the knee. It happened to the other knee a while back and nothing the physio tried/prescribed made much of a difference. Just took a few months to be able to run short distances without pain and then built up distance slowly (also transitioned to barefoot shoes which helped force me to build up slowly). So just taking it steady for the time being. went out just now and made it a bit further before the niggling pain started so that's progress!

Are you running Dublin?

Also that plan looks good and well thought out although puts me off ever wanting to be an ultra runner.

@ewanmac what shoes do you use? Sounds similar to me.

@I_am_Hingis Nope, the plan is Abingdon Marathon (Oct 23rd) and then the Centurion SDW50 in April.

@Pifko I use a mix. 90% of my running is off road and on footpaths etc so my dry weather shoe (and road shoe) is the Inov-8 f-lite 195. For winter/wet weather I have always used the x-talon 212 shoes but recently switched to the lighter x-talon 190 and love them although I now can't see them on the Inov-8 website. I often wear vibram five fingers (an old pair of KSOs) for easy/recovery runs but realise I probably haven't put them on all year.

@Arducius As Hippy posted on the transcontinental thread, ultra distance sport is more mental then physical and favours the stubborn over pure 'athletes'. As I understand it Endure 24 is on a circuit and you just run as far as possible in 24hrs right? If so then it's a pretty benign environment for an ultra... it's not like you'll find yourself stuck up on the moors in the middle of the night. I recon there is nothing stopping you giving it a go, you might do 100 miles, you might do 120 or you might do 50 or less. Just listen to your body, do what you can and then go back and go further next year :-)

Yeah it's a 5 mile course, which I appreciate may get boring, but is close to home and would allow me to do the event without too much time away from family (and therefore more likely to get the green light from the gf) and should be doable without any support. I kind of see it as a gateway into ultra running - if I can do that then I can try some more interesting races.

I've been following the TCR thread - something else I'd love to do but not sure I'd have time (or energy) for anything else after ultra-running training and ultra-cycling training, and I've got a little boy at home who already doesn't see his dad for most of the week as I'm at work. Maybe we'll enter as a tandem in a few years...

@Pifko I use a mix. 90% of my running is off road and on footpaths etc so my dry weather shoe (and road shoe) is the Inov-8 f-lite 195

Cool, I was looking at F-lites as another option actually, so it's good to hear a recommendation which isn't too pricey.

IRT Ultra - I'm on an Ultra-running FaceArse group and there's usually lots of recommendations for the Run/Walk method from the very start, especially if it's a 24hr, with the theory that you'll probably want to expend a little less energy during the day when it's warmer and pull-back a few places in the night when the faster starters run out of gas a bit later in the race.

This is obviously all 2nd hand opinion - I've not run further than 26.2 and don't really fancy it, for a few years at least.

Maybe we'll enter as a tandem in a few years...

Father son TCR pair would be awesome :-) My GF keeps asking when my next ultra/IM/whatever is going to be. I mentioned LEL but she doesn't like the sound of that because she wouldn't be allowed to crew!

@Pifko They don't have the most durable uppers... all of mine have eventually failed like this (old photo), but other than that they've been great.

My GF keeps asking when my next ultra/IM/whatever is going to be. I mentioned LEL but she doesn't like the sound of that because she wouldn't be allowed to crew!

Many other halves of LEL riders volunteer at one of the controls for the duration of the event.

Some even drive between controls (avoiding the official route as much as possible) and volunteer for the bit before/during/after their rider comes through (they do some work that helps everyone as well as the bit tending to their own rider).

Not so easy to do with children in tow, guess my wife/daughter are going to disappear off to her parents by the seaside for the week.

she doesn't like the sound of that because she wouldn't be allowed to crew!

She's a keeper!

[shoe pic]

All my trainers fail by the little toe like that, I must have some sort of talon for a toe. Or fat feet.

but it worked for me.

Zealot!

Only kidding.

P.s. Your programme makes me feel like I'll be undercooked come end Oct, tho yours was for the 100 not a 50 yeah?

Yeah, I used my plan to build up towards a couple of 100s although I did try to fit a couple of other races in as training runs. I'm not sure what mileage I'll be hitting over winter in preparation for the sdw50, but given I want to ride some audax and other commitments I recon I'll be underprepared too.

Also wore my vibram toe shoes for an easy 5k with the gf this evening... Saw two foxes so clearly they enhanced my connection with nature :-)

Have any of you ultra runners considered the transgrancanaria? it looks like a decent event, although potentially quite hot.

Managed a short track session last night 6 x 800, average of 2:34, I'll take that for now. Time to focus on x country in about 7 weeks time.

That does look like an amazing race. Exactly the kind of thing I am shooting for eventually which means the bike is taking a distant back seat at the moment.

Decent 5.5 mile tempo run run for me last night. Tried my new injini socks which were ace. Like the lightweight feeling compared to the bombproof 1000 milers I usually use.

Looks interesting, not exorbitant entry fee either.

anyone know of a running club in camberwell/peckham area? new here and looking for some friendly weeknight runs

@Arducius Its a standing joke that you don't train, and there is a truth to that in that it takes a long time for your body to recover, and the risk of injury by training is very real. So generally you string a series of events together, with a decent interval in between.
It is all in the mind, but to reach that level of self confidence it helps to have undertaken something previously, so chicken/egg paradox.
Set a realistic first ultra, i.e., just over a marathon and go slow.
What people don't tell you;
A marathon, if you are going full pelt is far harder than any ultra.
Never forget anyone can do it, the only limits are those you place on yourself, if its painful just back off a little.

Any advice on barefoot running shoes? Currently looking at some merrell ones.

Less is more.

What are you currently running in?

I haven't read much into barefoot, but is it normally recommended to transition gradually using a low/zero drop shoe first?

Thanks for the reply, I'll be honest I'm not really running at all due to a knee injury a couple of years back. I was in a pair of Brooks standard runners when I did run and I always found I would run on my heels in them, whereas when I'm in bare feet I run much more on the balls of my feet. I'm looking to get back to some light jogging and wondered if being in barefoot shoes and thus running on the balls of my feet more would help my knee.

@Tonts I made the transition to barefoot shoes after injury in the hope that better form would help to stop the injury from recurring. The injury hasn't come back, but I have had other problems. Would those issues have been better/worse with "traditional" running shoes? Who knows.

I went with Vibrams, I find them comfy, they do take a bit of getting used to and I can run with a heel strike gait in them so you do still have to work on landing fore/mid foot.

For me the transition was fine, but it gave me very tight calves for the first few months until they get used to the movement as they're contracting as they extend to absorb the impact of the heel. Normally the cushioning in the shoe takes care of that for you. I wore them exclusively for the vast majority of my marathon training, but now try to vary the shoes I run in a little.

Oh, and if you're running on stony ground you will need to slow down and take more care. Getting a sharp stone right in the middle of the ball of your foot is the worst.

So happy to have completed the speed interval section of my training plan, so happy.