For Sale: My nagasawa

If you want to buy a new steel handmade frame, then I would buy from Japan. If you want an old steel hand made frame go to tour de ville!

All i'm saying is the new steel stuff from most builders is not as good as Japanese stuff.

In many peoples opinion the Keirin builders are at the top of the frame building game.
Take into account the use of Japanese steel (dont make me go into that please) which is prolly the best in the world and the up to date technology of producing said steel.

You can't get better for your money!

No body builds like this anymore!!!!!!

I don't believe your hype. companies like Reynolds, Deda, Tange and Columbus all make steel tubing that is light, strong and has the ideal stiffness for bike manufacture.
the frame builders from the U.K. U.S. Italy and other western countries have been making frames of equal quality since before somebody decided to turn a sport into a betting vehicle and standardise the equipment used.
I'm not denying they are nice frames to look at but to hold them in higher regard than others is folly.

I think it an interesting point to debate. I know very little about Japanese bikes. I'd like to know more. For example what tubing do they use and what techniques make them superiour builders? I have just sold a Mercian made from Reynolds 725 and that was a superb bike . I am about to order a Tommasini this based on the reviews that riders give the Sentisi and techno - Tommasini never stopped building steel bikes - I can't see how they lost there skills - so how have the Japanese surpasssed them - I am not arguing a point - you probably have forgotten more about bikes than I will ever know - I just want hear why you think so highly of the japanese builders

to be fair, their car manufacturing is superior to everyone elses...

unlike the italians, which is pretty ropey

to be fair, their car manufacturing is superior to everyone elses...

cars are quite complex. we are dealing with two triangles of steel tubing welded together.

Fillet brazed rather than welded surely?

Fillet brazed rather than welded surely?

i was being economical with the truth.

I know its probably been alluded to by andypancake

but

the pupil should always surpass the master.

ergo

Barrie is better than Ernie.

Villiers is better than Cooper

Nagasawa is better than Ciocc.

Stands to reason. Tubing gets better, techniques get refined, equipment improves.

@Fiddy I'd had forgotten just how magnificent the gunmetal paint on your Nag actually is! Shits all over pink, baby.

that's just your opinion based on myth.

Ha! Which bit - the pupil master thing or gunmetal being betterer than pink?

So says YOU, capable of expressing an objective absolute truth?

we haven't even quantified how they are to be judged.

on rarity and desirability to art students and collectors or due to the myths surrounding their manufacture they win.

tested to destruction in a laboratory, who knows?

unlike the italians, which is pretty ropey

Don't the Italians make a pretty decent car too? Ferrari and the like?

tbh what i said was in jest, and andy's probably right, i would love something jap one day

Don't the Italians make a pretty decent car too? Ferrari and the like?

they design them well, but no one would say they are well made.

we haven't even quantified how they are to be judged.

on rarity and desirability to art students and collectors or due to the myths surrounding their manufacture they win.

tested to destruction in a laboratory, who knows?

All true. Dammit.
Although, there was an artisanal bent to the proceedings so my examples were of some imagined teacher v puipil builders' showdowns in that vein. Purely conjecture mind, I have little clue whether any of these pupils surpassed their masters.

tbh what i said was in jest, and andy's probably right, i would love something jap one day

Me too. Wearing those thigh high socks...

well i think richard sachs did because he experimented, tried different materials and a scientific approach as well as expanding the business side of things compared to witcombs where he learned the trade.

any one knows where fiddy lives? and has a balaclava I can borrow?

Ask Greasy!

531c
the only steel !