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That's not what equality is about, Lucas. It's about being treated with dignity and respect, and not feeling as if you have to behave or look a certain way to feel valid.
I didn't say anything about equality.
However to take your direct quote,
"Some women have chosen to exploit that by earning a lot of money taking their kit off - fair enough - but it's a shame that we appear to live in a society where the attitude is that that's acceptable behaviour."
Why is that shameful? some people are scientists, some people are bricklayers, some people are secretaries, some people are athletes, others are musicians, others are models.Does someone who makes their money taking their kit off deserve less respect than a scientist or an athlete?
I remember three of us were shopping at ASDA one weekend where my friend works, he told us about man who worked filling the same aisle every night (tinned pet food) for 25 years and he takes a lot of pride in his job. We laughed at how he probably a thicko and a bit boring.
My other friend that doesn't work at ASAD then piped up and said "but maybe that is what he is good at, and maybe he isn't capable of doing anything else well, at least he is working hard for his money".
My friend was 100% right, I had no right to disrespect this man because he works hard at his job.
EDIT: I have absolutely no idea of the point I was trying to make.
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I didn't say anything about equality.
Your post implied that by having a thread on naked men (or something along those lines) that somehow this would resolve the situation - the implication being that this was some kind of equality, since the outcomes were the same. The argument 'well let women have the same thread/rights/opportunities' doesn't resolve the underlying problem.
Why is that shameful?
I didn't say it was - I said it was a shame.
some people are scientists, some people are bricklayers, some people are secretaries, some people are athletes, others are musicians, others are models.
I remember three of us were shopping at ASDA one weekend where my friend works, he told us about man who worked filling the same aisle every night (tinned pet food) for 25 years and he takes a lot of pride in his job. We laughed at how he probably a thicko and a bit boring.
My other friend that doesn't work at ASAD then piped up and said "but maybe that is what he is good at, and maybe he isn't capable of doing anything else well, at least he is working hard for his money".
My friend was 100% right, I had no right to disrespect this man because he works hard at his job.
I couldn't care less what someone does for a living. I'm grateful for the fact we live in a society where someone can go to university, get a degree, and then go and stack the shelves at Asda. A person's choice of job bears no relevance to their education, upbringing, intelligence or social status.
Does someone who makes their money taking their kit off deserve less respect than a scientist or an athlete?
You've misunderstood my point - I'm not judging a person because they take their clothes off - that's their choice. I'm judging a society that promotes the view that to get anywhere in life you have to behave a certain way, or look a certain way. The problem isn't with the person taking their clothes off - the problem is with the society in which we live.
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Originally Posted by mooks
*Definitely the latter.I was half expecting someone to put up that most clichéd of responses 'you don't have to read it if you don't want to'. It's a relief no-one has, but my response would have been that it's all well and good ignoring a thread, but it's the fact the thread [I]exists* that troubles me. I'm not judging anyone, but looking at all the different characteristics of this forum, it's the fact that so many members seem to be intelligent, self-aware people that makes this place what it is for me; seeing a thread descend into an excuse to post a bit of bare flesh goes against what I thought this forum was all about. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought we were more enlightened than this?
I'm not naive enough to think I'm speaking on behalf of other members, but having a thread like this makes me feel uncomfortable, and sends a message out to potential and existing members - both male and female - that the site's a touch on the chauvinistic side.
I appreciate that this thread wasn't started as an excuse to post pictures like this, but nonetheless, that's what it has become - and I certainly don't blame fasteddy for the way it's turned out - that responsibility lies with the other members who have posted here.
Fair point, but I've been on the 'who's online' link plenty of times and seen that there's always a guest or a crawler looking at the Victoria Pendelton thread - which just means any old bugger's typed her name into Google and been directed here.
I'm not going to get a bee in my bonnet about all this though - I'm not one for internet crusades, as you always end up looking like a twat, if I haven't already. Like your mum always used to say though, 'I'm not upset, just disappointed...'
One more awesome post!
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Your post implied that by having a thread on naked men (or something along those lines) that somehow this would resolve the situation - the implication being that this was some kind of equality, since the outcomes were the same. The argument 'well let women have the same thread/rights/opportunities' doesn't resolve the underlying problem.
I didn't say it was - I said it was a shame.
I couldn't care less what someone does for a living. I'm grateful for the fact we live in a society where someone can go to university, get a degree, and then go and stack the shelves at Asda. A person's choice of job bears no relevance to their education, upbringing, intelligence or social status.
You've misunderstood my point - I'm not judging a person because they take their clothes off - that's their choice. I'm judging a society that promotes the view that to get anywhere in life you have to behave a certain way, or look a certain way. The problem isn't with the person taking their clothes off - the problem is with the society in which we live.
We seem to be misunderstanding one another and I suspect both of us really can't be arsed re-explaining ourselves, So I will give up now. Maybe one day we'll discuss this while enjoying a beer.
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We seem to be misunderstanding one another and I suspect both of us really can't be arsed re-explaining ourselves.
Plus it's hard. I had a rant once about tone and the internet, how you write something and how it's interpreted. Text, especially in very short bursts, is an incredibly limiting communication medium. My preference is always to give the poster the benefit of the doubt even when it appears that they're idiots.
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I hadn't actually noticed you had written a response beyond the . because of the quote fail.
You appear to be selectively reading my posts, I had raised objections ages ago to the thread direction the thread was going in.
My point about mooks post was that if you're bothered by the existence of something, then life is going to be tough. You can't do much about the existence of something unless you want to eradicate it, and on a forum that is censorship. I can live with the existence of anything, whether I agree to it or not... because I find censorship to be the worse of the two evils.
I thought that my paraphrasing of Voltaire later in the post made that clear... it's not that I disagree with mooks general sentiment about the direction of the thread. But as I'm not going to be censoring the forum it does seem utterly pointless to allow yourself to get worried too much about it.
It's taking things way too seriously to be worried by the existence of something, it's just a thread on a forum on a site on the internet, and I've already suggested that if people are bothered then perhaps having the antithesis thread to highlight how boys might feel about being treated as objects could be one of many things to show your disapproval.
I hate writing posts like this, because it sounds like I give a fuck when actually I don't... because I prefer to just enjoy the forum than get wrapped up in these tedious debates. I should probably just Godwin the thread and bung you on ignore, it's always the easier option.
The fact that stuff happens is not an adequate argument against being bothered by it, nor is it clear that starting a thread to objectify men would balance out this thread. I think the most direct sensible reaction is to stand up and object, not in expectation of calling down authoritarian censorship, but simply to communicate what you feel. So +1 to Mooks and the taggers for that.
What i hope for now is debate, more views, and above all mutual respect. I don't expect LFGSS to reach a coherent consensus on so fraught an issue. I'm not even consistent within myself. I have been deeply uncomfortable about what the images in this thread imply about respect for women as people, and increasingly worried about how they would make others feel, yet (as a lonely single man) I have enjoyed looking at some of them.
I don't want anyone to save me my own bad thoughts, but I'm thankful to Mooks and the taggers for reminding me that this thread exists not just in the privacy of wherever we view it from, not just within the anonymity of the internet, but also (to the extent that it exists) in the shared mental space of the community that is LFGSS.
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Andy, a repost but indeed the funbags are on show
http://sfgfc.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/sophie-howard-rosie-jones-532517-800x1108.jpg
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^^^ that could be misinterpreted Big Red.
ps how was scotchland - in fact, don't tell me on this thread, I'll just have to return to a combination of social analysis and ropey photos from a cheap lads mag. Monday? -
I suspect both of us really can't be arsed re-explaining ourselves.
Ain't that a fact!
Maybe one day we'll discuss this while enjoying a beer.
Or maybe forget the discussion bit and just have a beer? That works well for me...
I don't expect LFGSS to reach a coherent consensus on so fraught an issue. I'm not even consistent within myself.
And to be honest, I'm not sure I'd want us to - what would be the fun in that? ;p
One thing I do want to say before I go back to jizzing over my Dura Ace (Campag aero seatpost and Dura Ace stem - is that anti-porn?), is that while I wouldn't look to censor the content of this thread (I agree with David's Voltaire quote), it's important to keep in mind that the dissenters have a valid right to comment on this issue - just as people will step in when someone oversteps the mark in other issues.
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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spvvAdAN5bA&feature=related"]YouTube
- JOHN COOPER CLARKE - DAILY EXPRESS[/ame] -
When is someone going to start the thread about "super cool women doing neat things on bikes!"
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Glossy photos of girls on bikes!
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