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This so called 'rioting' is giving legitimate rioting a bad name. IMHO civil unrest should have some point to it, not just be some kind of mutant shopping spree. This is like watching a national 'toys out of the pram' tantrum. Get a fucking direction you tossers, you are spoiling it for the rest of us.
What like the LA riots over institutional police brutality, murder, and racism... where the majority of destruction was in black neighbourhoods. Destruction is destructive. End of IMO.
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The jobs which require a labour force of that type are not getting done - on a huge scale. There's enough work for a paid not-in-the-middle-of-being-reformed workforce, as well as those making amends.
Rich people need to give up a lot of their wealth for the greater good. This is basically their fault in the first place, greedy bastards.
If you used those convicted of anti-social acts as a work force to give back to society that which they have taken, then you have a number of challenges.
Use them to do things like street cleaning, and there is a self respect issue already- you are making them into "fools in orange jumpsuits".
Plus, if you have a near constant supply of "re-habs" then you don't need to employ street cleaners, so the council would "right-size" the workforce, leading to a lot of unemployed former street cleaners.
So to remove the impetus to get rid of existing staff you'd maybe price the re-habs labour at market rates- but then who would employ them if they cost the same as "normals"?
Then what to do- maybe we could compel companies to employ a certain percentage of re-habs?
But then, if they have to be at work, and cannot get sacked, are they going to do anything?
It simply becomes another tax on companies, rather than a social re-habilitation program. -
you are spoiling it for the rest of us.
You're talking about the Eton mafia running the country, right? Let's not get distracted with the side-effects.
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Hugo, I read what you wrote and what I can see is borstals and hard labour camps. I can work with it...
I guess some of that soviet propaganda made it through then ;)
Seriously tho, I think there is some merit to some of my ideas. The problem with everything always seems to be money and execution.
Most people are muppets and you can't trust them to do anything. Set up state run boarding schools, and they get hampered by H&S and human rights. Don't impose restrictions and you get rampant abuse of children.
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I do have some sympathies with your views, but look at the US... and it's not like they have less violent crime.
Actually violent crime has fallen dramatically over the last 20 years in the states.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13799616 -
This is what needs to happen.
A rapper called ‘Reveal’ was on Newsnight last night, and he said something very sensible and to the point. He thinks that during the 70s/80s the ‘youth’ lost respect for the police. During the 90s/00s they’ve now lost their fear of them too. Whether you agree about the causes of this doesn’t detract from it being accurate. I suspect it’s not just the youth either who don’t reckon much to the police – it’s a pretty common view.
Too often they seem either powerless or unwilling to arrest known ‘gangsters’. Law-abiding residents know all too well themselves who the local bad-boys are, so obviously the cops also do. But too much crime is committed by these well known thugs, and much too often they get away with it. They’re allowed to think they’re above the law, when in actual fact they’re not. Them being able to live their lifestyles under the noses of the cops for as long as they dare eventually makes both them and the impressionable youth of such a community think it’s a viable option to be a thug, rather than participate in society as normal.
There’s been a lot of footage of the police doing little or nothing in the face of the recent violence, which is not to say that they’ve not carried out their function at all. But when you see a group of at most 8 kids tipping over a car, while double that amount of police in riot gear stand nearby whilst they do it, you can’t help but wonder why they don’t storm these kids, round them up and arrest the lot of them. Why don’t they do it? I’m pretty sure it’s not down to the fear of the police themselves being injured, as plenty of these kids out on the streets aren’t hardened criminals who could be tempted to shank a cop, but impressionable silly bastards who need a good fucking shock. But the cops don’t give it to them.
If the police seem incapable of arresting the well-known local drug-dealer, or unwilling to grab the village idiots smashing shit up, then we’re bang in trouble on the whole. The role of the regular police has been diluted to that of a traffic-warden. There aren’t enough of them on the beat, and with their responsibilities/powers/numbers being reduced, this can’t help but diminish the view of them by all elements of the public. And that’s exactly what’s happened. We’re paying for our government’s (not just this one) trivialising of the public sector.
Only until all of the above is reversed will steps be made to change the view of those capable of what we’ve seen on our streets. Normality has to prevail, and it will. The rioters will have their moment in the sun, get fed up and slip back into their own lives. But they won’t go away, and neither will the conditions surrounding their lives. Fixing all of this isn’t easy, but that’s not to say it shouldn’t be done. Crime needs to stop being glamorised, as does its option as a way of life. The police need to reassert themselves, and have the backing of the powers that be. It’s the same old answers – strong families/communities, decent schooling/prospects/ambitions. But they’re the right things to achieve. It’s clear that something is very badly wrong, and unfortunately correcting it means a huge effort taking many years. But it’s at the cost of a decent society, so ultimately well worth it.
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Well obviously it requires the rich to relinquish some of their wealth for the benefit of wider society.
I have every confidence that will happen…
Isn't there a quote something to the effect of
If all the money in the world was divided out equally between it's populations there wouldn't be enough to go around ?
Bill Gates with 50bn in his bank account if divided out amongst all the poeple in the UK it would be £769 per person
now that is a lot of money but I'm sure it would be quickly spent by some on trainers and flat screen tv's and deisgner clothes and we'd be back to square one just slightly better dressed
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perhaps the police could station them at traffic lights, if someone jumps a red then they are allowed to jump out, nick the bike and return it to a central location for auction by the old bill.
they get out in the fresh air, it involves some exercise, they perform a public service and it's doing something they enjoy.
HB for PM.
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Rich people need to give up a lot of their wealth for the greater good. This is basically their fault in the first place, greedy bastards.
You're jokin right?
Why don't we flip that round and say all these poor lazy cunts that don't wanna work and ponce off the government and make a life doing so should have their benefits stopped so they have to go out and work
Guarenteed 75% + of these cunts that have been kickin off the last few nights are on the dole poncing off the govt.
Anyone nicked should have it stopped then they'll see how tough it is
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Well obviously it requires the rich to relinquish some of their wealth for the benefit of wider society.
I have every confidence that will happen…
Erm…
Helloooooo, rich people…
What? Give up the chance to buy this ?
http://www.johnlewis.com/231124972/Product.aspx -
This is what needs to happen.
A rapper called ‘Reveal’ was on Newsnight last night, and he said something very sensible and to the point. He thinks that during the 70s/80s the ‘youth’ lost respect for the police. During the 90s/00s they’ve now lost their fear of them too. Whether you agree about the causes of this doesn’t detract from it being accurate. I suspect it’s not just the youth either who don’t reckon much to the police – it’s a pretty common view.
Too often they seem either powerless or unwilling to arrest known ‘gangsters’. Law-abiding residents know all too well themselves who the local bad-boys are, so obviously the cops also do. But too much crime is committed by these well known thugs, and much too often they get away with it. They’re allowed to think they’re above the law, when in actual fact they’re not. Them being able to live their lifestyles under the noses of the cops for as long as they dare eventually makes both them and the impressionable youth of such a community think it’s a viable option to be a thug, rather than participate in society as normal.
There’s been a lot of footage of the police doing little or nothing in the face of the recent violence, which is not to say that they’ve not carried out their function at all. But when you see a group of at most 8 kids tipping over a car, while double that amount of police in riot gear stand nearby whilst they do it, you can’t help but wonder why they don’t storm these kids, round them up and arrest the lot of them. Why don’t they do it? I’m pretty sure it’s not down to the fear of the police themselves being injured, as plenty of these kids out on the streets aren’t hardened criminals who could be tempted to shank a cop, but impressionable silly bastards who need a good fucking shock. But the cops don’t give it to them.
If the police seem incapable of arresting the well-known local drug-dealer, or unwilling to grab the village idiots smashing shit up, then we’re bang in trouble on the whole. The role of the regular police has been diluted to that of a traffic-warden. There aren’t enough of them on the beat, and with their responsibilities/powers/numbers being reduced, this can’t help but diminish the view of them by all elements of the public. And that’s exactly what’s happened. We’re paying for our government’s (not just this one) trivialising of the public sector.
Only until all of the above is reversed will steps be made to change the view of those capable of what we’ve seen on our streets. Normality has to prevail, and it will. The rioters will have their moment in the sun, get fed up and slip back into their own lives. But they won’t go away, and neither will the conditions surrounding their lives. Fixing all of this isn’t easy, but that’s not to say it shouldn’t be done. Crime needs to stop being glamorised, as does its option as a way of life. The police need to reassert themselves, and have the backing of the powers that be. It’s the same old answers – strong families/communities, decent schooling/prospects/ambitions. But they’re the right things to achieve. It’s clear that something is very badly wrong, and unfortunately correcting it means a huge effort taking many years. But it’s at the cost of a decent society, so ultimately well worth it.
I know him, he was in the same group as the guy I posted a bit further up thread.
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are those receipts real?
Why wouldn't they be, probably looted the till.
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I hope you're not claiming your child benefit...
No, we're not, we both work
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@Platini
The jobs which require a labour force of that type are not getting done - on a huge scale. There's enough work for a paid not-in-the-middle-of-being-reformed workforce, as well as those making amends.
Rich people need to give up a lot of their wealth for the greater good. This is basically their fault in the first place, greedy bastards.