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• #7753
A lot of people on here don't seem to understand how law and order in our society works, or doesn't work in this case.
It works because people consent to be governed, and accept the rule of law. That is why we don't have armed cops, or a particularly large police force.
What we are seeing right now is that a large group of people have withdrawn their consent to be governed, and are not respecting the rule of law. If this group is sufficiently large, as we have seen, the existing forces of law may not have the numbers to restore order.
We can postulate various ways in which the imbalance of forces can be altered in the short-term so that order can be restored (water cannon, more police, paramilitarising the police, using the Army, paramilitarising sections of the civil population), but unless we figure out why such a large group of people have withdrawn (however temporarily, spuriously or irrationally) their consent to be governed, and take steps to remedy it, this will all happen again, and we will be forced to warehouse large numbers of people in prison, rather as the US has done.
Using the prison system to control people who have no stake in main-stream society, as has been shown in the US, does not work on any level, economically, socially or ethically, especially in view of the recidivism rates.
I don't think it's helpful to present the case as either condemn or understand. You can both condemn the actions, and try to understand the circumstances that lead to the actions.
So eloquent, Bill. You're wasted on the smelly couriers ;)
This is key: I don't think it's helpful to present the case as either condemn or understand. You can both condemn the actions, and try to understand the circumstances that lead to the actions.
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Good enough for my boss to tell us all to leave now. Good enough for me to arm myself and wait in the basement
Why Victoria? All the shops are rubbish. Are people over hyping rumour just so they can go home early?
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Anyone cycled back through Peckham or New Cross this evening? Any worse than yesterday?
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Fashion St, E1 - offices being evacuated (friend works there and told me)
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So eloquent, Bill. You're wasted on the smelly couriers ;)
This is key: I don't think it's helpful to present the case as either condemn or understand. You can both condemn the actions, and try to understand the circumstances that lead to the actions.
"understand" unfortunately implies sympathy.
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• #7765
Fashion St, E1 - offices being evacuated (friend works there and told me)
It's quarter past five. Is evacuated riot talk for shut up for the day?
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Are the 16000 police officers going to stand on the streets like lemons again? And eventually surrounded because they get outnumbered? I hope not.
I am tired and sick of all these politicians keep saying the same thing.
Possibly, coming back through Chiswick there were several groups of police, each group around 5 or 6 strong.
I suspect that they just asked all of the guys to do their paperwork outside today, just to make sure there is a "visible police presence". It is Chiswick afterall, someone might go after the bamboo Calfee in the Eco shop.
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Well my building is opposite Scotland Yard and equidistant from Buckingham and Westminster Palace so the area does have some political significance.
Fair do. I work at the other end. Holland and Barrett, M&S and EAT.
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Good enough for my boss to tell us all to leave now. Good enough for me to arm myself and wait in the basement