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I just found this out the other day, I was speaking to someone who was on 30K-ish as a spanner monkey. Had serious thoughts about moving there, then remembered all the spiders and Australians.

And those horrible Orcs.

Also beer is generally poor quality and pricey.

Although the exchange rate is about 1GBP : 1.80AUD, to achieve equivalent earnings in terms of lifestyle you need to convert at about 1GBP to 2.2-2.5AUD.

So 30K AUD is equivalent to about 13K GBP, which is 40 hours a week at £6.30/hr.

Not worth it.

He was talking £30k equivalent.

So 85K AUD?

I didn't go into details, I then found out he got made to shave his legs so people buying posh roady bits respected his opinion more, that, and the spiders became more relevant. He's Ste's mate and might polo so you can get the stats then.

A quick google suggests that the average wage in Australia is about $72000. Which is about £39000. That's about £13000 more than the average wage in the UK.

I suppose most of that is danger money for the fact that everything there is poisonous and out to kill you.

he got made to shave his legs so people buying posh roady bits respected his opinion more

!

A quick google suggests that the average wage in Australia is about $72000. Which is about £39000. That's about £13000 more than the average wage in the UK.

I suppose most of that is danger money for the fact that everything there is poisonous and out to kill you.

The equivalence ratio I mentioned earlier (to take account of a higher cost of living), converts that $72000 average wage to £30k, which is only £4k more than the average UK wage. Fair enough, that's still 15% higher, but nowhere near your 50%.

If you can get paid in AUD whilst living in the UK without being taxed twice you're onto a winner.

Average wage ≠ bike mechanic wage.

Equivalence ratios? Sounds like maths to me.

I am out of here.

I would argue to that the presence of such lenders on the high street is as likely to be the impact of changes to our buying habits - the likes of dixons, comet and other general retailers have been undermined by the use of the internet to buy goods - colloquially the Amazon effect.

Except of course that most payday loans are used to pay for food, bills and rent rather than commodities. Unless you class a spare bedroom as a commodity.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/oct/01/payday-loans-feed-families-report

which is only £4k more than the average UK wage.

You'd have to pay me a lot more than £4k to put up with Australians every day.

And those horrible Orcs.

Racist.

Everyone knows Orcs are from NZ.

The biggest issue with Payday loans is that you can roll them over, and you can get them from multiple lenders.

Most people that I know who have got into the shite have done so because of this.

Make a central database that all of the companies must consult, make it so that you can't take out a second loan until the first is paid off, and make it illegal to issue a loan to pay off a loan. After that market forces should start to pull down the interest rates as the companies compete for a smaller pot of misery (and stop relying on default charges etc for their profit margins).

The truth is that these guys WANT you to default, 'cos you are then in their pocket until you can claw out of the cycle. Not an ethical business model IMO.

Also, I am led to understand that simply taking one of these out dents your credit record even if paid off on time and in full.

Make a central database that all of the companies must consult, make it so that you can't take out a second loan until the first is paid off, and make it illegal to issue a loan to pay off a loan.

Which means you're screwed if your locked-in interest rate doesn't follow the market.

We're talking highstreet / internet payday lenders here aren't we? Coupla month max loans? Market isn't going to do a lot over that period!

Longer term loans are generally far more scrutinised in terms of ability to pay - I wasn't talking about them.

Simple but very likely true, if people had enough money for essentials from a living wage then they are much less likely to need to borrow small amounts of money at a stupid interest rate to get bread, heat and cider.

Ok - let me try this for a thought experiment. You can impact this problem two ways. You can change peoples incomes by raising the minimum wage or you can change their costs by doing something that reduces the cost of apple based products.

I have enough parliamentary and civil service resource to either cut the price of apple products in half or raise the minimum wage by 25%. Which one is going to lead to the greatest reduction in the use of pay day loans?

Now swap apple based products for cutting rental costs in half though rent controls.

The other point I would raise is there is an underlying assumption that putting up the minimum wage will not affect the level of employment. I would content that may not be true.

Lets take a large grocery chain that has introduced the self service tills that always have an unexpected item in the bagging area. If their staff costs go up by 25% as the minimum wage rises what would they do?

Except of course that most payday loans are used to pay for food, bills and rent rather than commodities. Unless you class a spare bedroom as a commodity.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/oct/01/payday-loans-feed-families-report

Excellent mis-read there fella. I don't think I every suggested people were taking out pay day loans to buy discretionary goods.

Lets take a large grocery chain that has introduced the self service tills that always have an unexpected item in the bagging area. If their staff costs go up by 25% as the minimum wage rises what would they do?

I heard an interesting idea that any company that does not pay their employees a living wage, such that they have to rely on short-term loans, should be taxed for the difference (between what they should pay them and what they actually pay them).

^ or cut out the middleman and just make the minimum wage a survivable wage

Excellent mis-read there fella. I don't think I every suggested people were taking out pay day loans to buy discretionary goods.

Sheeple will buy iPhones regardless of necessity or affordability.

oh please with the sheeple thing. Are you 14? Is this YouTube?

The other point I would raise is there is an underlying assumption that putting up the minimum wage will not affect the level of employment. I would content that may not be true.

Lets take a large grocery chain that has introduced the self service tills that always have an unexpected item in the bagging area. If their staff costs go up by 25% as the minimum wage rises what would they do?

But up until a few years ago those self service tills were tills operated by employees. You know - REAL people. When those employees were removed from the tills the company profits expanded and the prices did not reduce, they continued to rise.

Dare I suggest that those supermarkets which are making excessive profits by making these cuts, pay their employees a living wage first before counting and dividing up their profits?

Or how about an even more radical suggestion, the maximum anyone can earn within a business is no more than ten times what the lowest paid worker is paid.

That would go a long way to creating a fairer and more equitable society.