In the news

This is indicative of the state of our society today;

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/mar/12/uk-payday-loan-shop-banks-building-societies

The basic issue is that the minimum wage is too low to support those hardworking families that David Cameron and his wealthy cohorts talk about incessantly and they have to resort to short term loans at exorbitant interest rates to make ends meet. What a sad and sorry state of affairs.

It's time for change.

Not just that but the minimum wage is so low that even two adults working full time still require benefits/tax credits/housing benefit etc to live on. The figure for people receiving in work benefits is shockingly high.

This means that we're subsidising the low wages paid by big businesses etc. Surely Tesco can afford to pay its workers a living wage?

look guys, what if tesco decide to up sticks and go somewhere else though? what will we do then?

I'm not going to another country to buy my shopping that's taking the piss.

I hadn't thought of that....

best we just stick with the status quo - the poor can't be trusted with money, they've got no experience dealing with it.

I just spend it on beer and twiglets. Best I have none.

Can anyone lend me a pound?

This is indicative of the state of our society today;

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/mar/12/uk-payday-loan-shop-banks-building-societies

The basic issue is that the minimum wage is too low to support those hardworking families that David Cameron and his wealthy cohorts talk about incessantly and they have to resort to short term loans at exorbitant interest rates to make ends meet. What a sad and sorry state of affairs.

It's time for change.

are you certain this is the cause. Let me put forward an alternative hypothesis.

This form of lending has existed in some form for a considerable period of time. Certainly the last 30 years in my memory. Whether direct door step lending or the catalogue companies the business model is the same at the core - lending small amounts of money at high interest rates.

I would argue to that the presence of such lenders on the high street is as likely to be the impact of changes to our buying habits - the likes of dixons, comet and other general retailers have been undermined by the use of the internet to buy goods - colloquially the Amazon effect.

Therefore there is far less demand for retail space on the high street and rents become cheaper generally. So it becomes possible these types of lender to have a physical establishment. It being cheaper we see more of it occurring.

Further do we have any evidence that this type of lending has increased? Its certainly more visible but does that imply a change in actual activity?

A final thought does the minimum wage promote inequality because it excludes a portion of society from the work force?

Can anyone lend me a pound?

OK, before I loan you this, I expect my money back within a week.

Further do we have any evidence that this type of lending has increased? Its certainly more visible but does that imply a change in actual activity?

Yes:

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/loans-credit/disastrous-impact-of-payday-loans-laid-bare-with-82-per-cent-increase-in-people-seeking-help-in-just-one-year-9155415.html

http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/news/local/400-increase-in-dundee-payday-loan-debt-1.158128

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/dec/04/problem-payday-loans-rise-300-per-cent

^

two of those three articles linked to above above note an increase in the number of people seeking help with a problem debt which is interesting but not quite the question I was asking. I was inquiring as to the change in the total stock of debt.

The article discussing Dundee is interesting and more than a little scary. Is it reflective of the whole of the UK?

The cynic in my does also note that all three articles heavily rely on a emotive quotes from a charity whose mission is debt counselling. I believe the term for that is talking your own book. Or in other words they have conflict of interest.

Aren't payday loans just the evolution of pawn shops?

Maybe during the next bout of rioting, estate agents will be targeted.

i was surprised more houses weren't stolen in the duggan riots a few years back
i didn't see a single hooded youth taking the property details from the windows of estate agents

madness

Therefore there is far less demand for retail space on the high street and rents become cheaper generally.

Aren't high street rents too high? Leading to streets full of betting shops and these lenders as they're the only ones who can afford it.

The Rent Is Too Damn High Party's Jimmy McMillan at the NY Governor Debate - YouTube

Aren't high street rents too high? Leading to streets full of betting shops and these lenders as they're the only ones who can afford it.

I don't know - my orignal post was an alternative argument for the increased presence of payday loan companies on the high street. In no way stating that my hypothesis is the correct one.

The wider point I was trying to make is the original post strongly implied that raising the minimum wage would eliminate the problem of pay day lenders.

i think that is a pretty simplistic analysis and it needs more considered analysis.

Check out this lot- they require you to hand over the login details to your internet banking before they advance you the loan: https://www.clearaccount.com/

What could possibly go wrong?

Yeah, but Wiggo is going to be on the Archers...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-26557864

Check out this lot- they require you to hand over the login details to your internet banking before they advance you the loan: https://www.clearaccount.com/

What could possibly go wrong?

Your bank will not be amused.

Check out this lot- they require you to hand over the login details to your internet banking before they advance you the loan: https://www.clearaccount.com/

What could possibly go wrong?

That is a pernicious product.

Let alone the atrocious security fail. How long before an unencrypted USB goes walkies?

Check out this lot- they require you to hand over the login details to your internet banking before they advance you the loan: https://www.clearaccount.com/

What could possibly go wrong?

Blimey.

'ClearAccount is a "read-only" service. Our unswerving commitment to your security means we cannot control your bank account or make payments to third parties.'

Phew, that's a relief. Wait, what?

i think that is a pretty simplistic analysis and it needs more considered analysis.

Simple but very likely true, if people had enough money for essentials from a living wage then they are much less likely to need to borrow small amounts of money at a stupid interest rate to get bread, heat and cider.

Higher wages for all, it seems to work in Australia... Minimum wage is something like AU$23 IIRC...

Everyone seems to earn at least AU$1000 a week...